6 speed auto should be now possible

robgee1964 said:
I visited an OEM car manufacturer who had a few prototype electric vehicles. The main gearbox was replaced with a brushless DC motor and the engine bay had a big bank of LiIon batteries. It could be charged from a 13A UK socket.
Click to expand...

Did you see the episode of Wheeler Dealers with the electric Maserati Bi-turbo? Basically using off the shelf components? It's here if you haven't

100-150 mile range would turn a similar P6 into a practical and fun commuter and shopping car.

It did seem a bit compromised as it drove the conventional gearbox which seems unnecessary and also a weak link with all that torque going through it - I assume some sort of moderation of this must have built into the control systems. Dead weight also.
 
I've not seen that wheeler dealers episode, I'll watch it later.
Maybe they left the main gearbox in for ease of fitment, I suppose it could just be left in one of the high gears? As you say its dead weight which is just what you don't want. The OEM converted car I saw had the motor basically coupled 1:1 to the diff, so would be like an LT77 or R380 in 4th. Apparently it could climb steep hills OK, and the development guy I spoke to was using it as his daily commuter!
 
I'm really wondering in future whether there will be a market for electric kits to keep classics running. I'm fairly certain fuel will be available for at least the next 3 decades, the problem being the increasing legislation and restrictions based on emissions. Electric conversion would seem easier than fitting a modern engine and transmission and for the kinds of distances classics typically do, possibly more practical all-round.

Ironically in Europe many such emissions control schemes have sensible exemptions for the trivial number of classic vehicles but I'm not seeing that in the UK. I can drive my P6 into German city centres without even an emissions sticker. My 2013 VW, not so.
 
Dr Porche's first couple of cars were hub motor hybrids, well petrol electric. He gave up on the idea fairly early as they kept falling to bits. there was also the owen electric which had a unique motor generator arrangement as the gearbox. and used a train controller for the gearchange.

I drive a six speed GM box daily and its great in the country but a real pig in traffic, much of the problem is the time it takes to decide what gear to be in then finding its the wrong one...I drove the same car with a 4 speed and it was a nice drive all round. I looked into going for the five and six speed boxes but there was so much more to go wrong and i couldn't see any advantage over lowering the diff ratio for the four speeder (that part I've done as soon as the air con is in and car is registered I'll work on the actual box changover)
 
robgee1964 said:
Which city can't you drive your 2013 vw into?
Click to expand...

I didn't say that. It requires an emissions control sticker. The P6 doesn't. It looks like London will be more than doubling the congestion charge also for diesels and other "polluting vehicles", which very definitely includes a 55 year old V8.
 
mikecoombs said:
I drive a six speed GM box daily and its great in the country but a real pig in traffic, much of the problem is the time it takes to decide what gear to be in then finding its the wrong one...I drove the same car with a 4 speed and it was a nice drive all round.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming modern vehicles in the interest of economy rely much less on the converter slipping.
 
[QUOTE="PeterZRH, It requires an emissions control sticker.[/QUOTE]
Which uk cities require a sticker and what are the criteria?
There is a proposal to charge £10 per day for pre euro 4 vehicles in London which would affect anything pre mid 2000's. However the same proposal states historic vehicle tax class would be exempt.
 
I don't live in the UK. Neighboring Germany has this scheme and there are proposals here in Switzerland too.
 
ideal for cars that are finding spares an issue or when living in or near pollution control zones e.g. Paris .london. cost of conversion versus daily charge and use ? too many variables to say but what suits one may not suit another.
wondering how the London to Brighton run etc will work? after all the petrol ( not steam) cars are pollutants extreme. not that I would consider driving mine through London but know there must be a few owners inside the london borders. see they talking about doing a scrappage scheme now for diesels as all of a sudden millions won't be able to use cars powered by polluting engines.
potentially good for environment. good for city dwellers. short use journeys . so list of pros. cons = expensive conversions. will take away historic /classic rating as basically just a shell on wheels . will impact on value though some cars will get enhanced prices ( city of london) others will lose value ( mustang, etc) so very much a bit of marmite effect..wonder who it will turn out 10 years from now?
 
To me it's morally wrong to put the onus on the owners of old vehicles who generally drive older vehicles because they cost less out of financial necessity.

Why they're still selling super minis with diesel engines brand new is the real question in my mind. Natural wastage will see to most of the older cars in due course.

The most productive thing they could do IMHO is make the duty on diesel reflect the fact that diesel contains more carbon atoms per litre than petrol, and lower the duty on petrol to remain tax neutral, as well as abolishing VED and putting it on the fuel so those who use it pay it.

Classics are exempt from the congestion charge at least.

One things for certain that diesel smell when you're out cycling on a cold morning is just nasty.
 
rockdemon said:
Why they're still selling super minis with diesel engines brand new is the real question in my mind. Natural wastage will see to most of the older cars in due course.

The most productive thing they could do IMHO is make the duty on diesel reflect the fact that diesel contains more carbon atoms per litre than petrol, and lower the duty on petrol to remain tax neutral, as well as abolishing VED and putting it on the fuel so those who use it pay it
Click to expand...
Not counting cheating OEMs, as I understand things one of the big problem with diesels is particulate emissions. But petrol engines are moving towards direct injection (GDI) and this is having the consequence that they too become prone to these fine particulates. In fact there is talk of having to use DPF's on GDI engines in the future.

A modern diesel with correctly functioning emission controls, i.e DPF, SCR etc is really very good. The trouble is there are so many around whose emission controls or injection systems are clearly not functioning correctly. For example how many Mk3 mondeo TDCi's have you seen throwing out huge clouds of black smoke on hard acceleration?

I think they should come down *much* harder on owners of vehicles whose emission controls are malfunctioning.
 
Over here (Oz) if they can see your exhaust on a road camera you get a letter. If it's still smokey next time its a fine. It's amazing how we don't see smokey exhausts these days!
 
Well if anyone can see PM10s or NOx I'd be very impressed. This is why these old tests really don't work very so well today. This is like the current MoT test where pre 75 cars just need not to visibly smoke.

Very rare these days for petrol but a lot of visible crap from diesels, certainly pre-2010 (guessing pre-Euro 5).
 
PeterZRH said:
Well if anyone can see PM10s or NOx I'd be very impressed.
Click to expand...
Indeed but thats what the DPF and SCR are there for. Trouble is we now have well documented cases of OEM's cheating with regard to NOX emissions. It won't just be VW either so as a whole could be having a significant effect on air quality.
OEMs have been reluctant to put SCRs on cars as it means having an ad-blu tank. The targets can be met - cheating car makers need a slap too.
 
True my VW diesel 1.6 was one of the ones affected. It doesn't have the urea tank and they basically met the requirements with engine management fakery. Now the retune is going to lower the already fairly miserable 105bhp.

I'm going back to petrol for my next car as I feel the world will be increasing hostile. I'm looking at the new Alfa Guilia. The 2.0 petrol has 280bhp!
 
robgee1964 said:
Not counting cheating OEMs, as I understand things one of the big problem with diesels is particulate emissions. But petrol engines are moving towards direct injection (GDI) and this is having the consequence that they too become prone to these fine particulates. In fact there is talk of having to use DPF's on GDI engines in the future.

A modern diesel with correctly functioning emission controls, i.e DPF, SCR etc is really very good. The trouble is there are so many around whose emission controls or injection systems are clearly not functioning correctly. For example how many Mk3 mondeo TDCi's have you seen throwing out huge clouds of black smoke on hard acceleration?

I think they should come down *much* harder on owners of vehicles whose emission controls are malfunctioning.
Click to expand...


Mondeos and jag x types disappear off the roads when they get to a certain age. Someone suggested to me that their injector design is prone to blocking more than most. It's also noticable that some new diesels do smell when they overtake etc, it's not just the oldies. Anectdotally BMWs are prone to this, where VAG diesels arent and are actually some of the cleaner ones.
 
robgee1964 said:
Indeed but thats what the DPF and SCR are there for. Trouble is we now have well documented cases of OEM's cheating with regard to NOX emissions. It won't just be VW either so as a whole could be having a significant effect on air quality.
OEMs have been reluctant to put SCRs on cars as it means having an ad-blu tank. The targets can be met - cheating car makers need a slap too.
Click to expand...

There's also research suggesting that bigger particulate matter, not blocked by diesel emissions system is more harmful than the stuff they already block.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top