And now my car won't start...

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03-P6_3500

Member
Another one in the electrics-won't start topic-series: My '71 3500 won't start as from today.
When turning the key a clicking sound can be heard from the starter relay at the right front wing.

This happened before (few months ago), when starting became more and more unpredictable. I then replaced the relay and, it seemed, problem fixed.
Car started every time perfectly.

Now the starting has gotten worse again over the last few days, it started with a non-turning of the startermotor once until it gradually only clicks in the starter relay and doesn't start at all.

So what i did after reading the various posts on the forum:
- cleaned all connections on relay with degreaser (70% alcohol)
- cleaned an tested the old relay with degreaser (70% alcohol)
- cleaned all connections on starter solenoid with degreaser (70% alcohol)
But nothing changed.
- checked if the startermotor works: it does: it turns when connecting the 2 threaded parts with a screwdriver

Directly after this test it seemed like there was a sort of clicking sound from the solenoid/startermotor (couldnt hear it real well as i was at the wheel), second try after this: the starter motor remained perfectly silent.

Does anyone have an idea what this can be?

Thanks!

marco.
 
I have indeed been messing a bit with the lid/sensor: brake fluid light came on "stuttering", so i have been checking to replace the cork.
I did also clean those connections however today (forgot to mention) and both wires are connected.
Which are the earth wires? Is it the "double" spade one? Could it be the wiring itself if the connections look okay?

Thanks!
 
The earth for the relay piggybacks on to the earth for the reservoir switch. So IIRC it's the only terminal on the switch with 2 (black?) wires connected to it.
 
Aha. Yes, there is a piggyback-spade with black wiring there.
I'll check if both earth wires are connected well to the spade and this is connecting to the reservoir switch, right?

Thanks!
 
Stupid question maybe can i check this without jacking the car up?
It is at the left hand engine mounting of the V8, like in your photograph from a few years ago right?

Thanks!
 
If you shorted the main terminals on the starter and it cranked the engine as it should then the engine earth is OK.
 
Hi Harvey,
the starter motor turned, not the engine itself (just an electrical "humming" sound). Like a Tesla sort of.
Or is this impossible?... :oops:
 
If it were me i'd check that there is a supply to energise the solenoid when the key is turned, and then run a 12v hotwire supply to the terminal on the solenoid to see if it works then. If it doesn't crank with the "hotwire" connected then it's a solenoid or starter motor fault.
 
harveyp6 said:
If you shorted the main terminals on the starter and it cranked the engine as it should then the engine earth is OK.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but worth a quick check to make sure it's not just loosened itself and connecting intermittently.

03-P6_3500 said:
Stupid question maybe can i check this without jacking the car up?
It is at the left hand engine mounting of the V8, like in your photograph from a few years ago right?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Find a good earth on the body and just use a jump lead to connect to the engine.
 
quattro said:
Agreed, but worth a quick check to make sure it's not just loosened itself and connecting intermittently.
Click to expand...

Yep, especially since now it appears that shorting the terminals didn't make it crank, even though the original post made it seem to me that it did.
 
Thanks you guys for you quick repsonse!
Okay: please tell me if i understand you correct (it is pretty hard for me: both non-english speaking and abolute noob-mechanic):

I'll turn over the ignition key and afterwards short the solenoid to see if the (starter) engine also turns...
and
I'll check if the engine earth loosened itself along the way in the last few days, and if so reconnect. What a good earth on the body and a jump lead to the engine is i really can't imagine! :hmm:
 
03-P6_3500 said:
I'll check if the engine earth loosened itself along the way in the last few days, and if so reconnect. What a good earth on the body and a jump lead to the engine is i really can't imagine! :hmm:
Click to expand...

If you tighten up the earth lead down by the LHS engine mount you don't need to use the jump lead, that's just a way of bypassing the engine earth to see if there's a problem with it.

Jump lead = Halfords Up to 3.5L Jump Leads | Halfords UK
 
Better than alcohol degreaser for cleaning contacts and improving conductivity is Deoxit.
DeoxIT®, #D100P (Pen) - CAIG
Will last years .
If the starter spins but doesnt engage with the engine, that sounds like inadequate current - might be worth checking and cleaning the actual battery poles and earth connection. Or the solenoid is failing to throw the gear into engagement - odd that it can spin the motor but not throw the gear?
 
The alcohol was the only thing i had at hand at the moment. Probably not a bad idea to clean and reconnect everything well before using her... Nothing is obvious for me yet...

I just wanted to check if the starter spins: didn't turn the ignition, just shorted the poles on the solenoid. That might be the reason? I'll check the engine earth this evening, see if that's the reason for not engaging.
 
OK, shorting the poles wont energize the solenoid, so wont pull the gear into engagement, so that makes sense that it just spun the motor. Usually clicking from solenoid (in my experience) says there is enough in the battery to energize the solenoid, but not enough to turn the motor under load.
 
So i checked a bit more: not yet fixed.
- checked the engine earth (nice and tight), but cleaned it anyway and put it back: no difference: only a click in relay,
- then tried the jump lead between engine and metal to "make" earth on the engine: no difference, same thing,
- checked the earth-piggyback-connection at the brakefluid sensor: is clean, tight and looks (... for as much this is a visual thing) okay
- turned the ignition and shorted the solenoid poles at the startermotor with a screwdriver: it does crank the engine (not very fast by the way)

so: what next...
Can i "make" an earth for the relay maybe? What pin should i use? (it looks like W2 in the wm, but i can only read it with grandma's magnifying glass ) And: wire it to what? A bare metal body part somewhere?
Could it really be an empty battery? When it did start previously it did not at all turn slow, like i would expect. I could take it out, charge it and clean the poles tomorrow and check again...

Thanks!
 
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