before i do something unnecessary........

Mick Rae

Active Member
Dear All,
I am still chasing a small water leak. I have only one place left to go now, the place I dreaded going, as doing this job on my last classic (an MGB) was a bloody nightmare - the heater matrix. Had time on my hands to think about this recently. I have read the manuals, and looked at it all today as I applied some release oil to the fixings. Now, I am the last person to 'disobey' the manual usually, but, from what I am looking at there seems to be some extra jobs I don't need to do? My plan was as follows, but as it doesn't involve doing as much as is instructed, I would like to check with you who have been there and done it previously if thats okay.
1. remove the wiper arms, and the wheel box nuts.
2. remove the wiper panel scuttle panel whatever its called
3. remove the washer bottle
4. Partially drain the coolant to below heater level
5. remove the accelerator linkage bracket
6. remove the wee screws holding the controls to the linkages by accessing from the drivers (right) side knee compartment - that sounds dead easy! Anyone know the size by chance?
7. undo the four heater box fixings and the two heater hoses
8. lift, jiggle and swear it off the car
Does that sound about right? I haven't included in my plan removing engine cover, bonnet or indeed the glove box, but think it can get away without doing so....or is such overconfidence the undoing of me? I have not been very well recently, so today being first day of functionality/back in an upright position, all I have done is look, plan, add release fluid to fixings (and I am bloody knackered after that - will need to build up prior to weekend!). Only bit I was unsure of is the electrical connections for the blower motor - do these become visible as the box is removed, that is, can they be disconnected from the heater box as opposed to the hell hole under the dash? Lying around ill of recent times its the planning of attacking these jobs in minute detail that has kept me sane, so its either this or floor the attic - Rover wins.
thank you for any advice, in advance, as ever it is very much appreciated
Mick
PS - I realise this is just part one, as once its out I still have to dismantle and remove matrix if indeed it is the cause of the leak (has to be) - but that will take place on the bench, with tea and time. Just hopeing I dont find a rusty bulkhead, everything else I can sort, but don't have welding capability.
 
Not sure if the accelerator linkage needs to come off as I have a LHD car.
Remove valve cover on a 4 cyl car and you should be good if memory serves (cover valve gear with plastic to stop stuff getting in there. If not wiper Mech and scuttle panel might need to come off. Mine was off for another job when I did mine.

For the heater controls inside:

I believe their 5/16”. It’s easiest to access the bolts from the opposite side of the console, so heat and direction levers are loosened from the RHS seat after removing the glove box. The fan control from the LHS seat after removing the glove box there. Loosen don’t completely undo the bolts, the lever should slide off. Use looooong extensions and 1/4” drive to get in there.
 
Before you do all that, just bypass the heater with an old piece of metal pipe to join the inlet & outlet pipes together & see if the leak disappears. My 3500's matrix was clearly leaking & l did that particular job just to carry on running her. Several years later l'm only just attending to the job but she was off the road for much of that time.
 
Hi all - TRM, great suggestion - however, the leak is more a weep, very slow loss, and the car is not mobile currently, so, in for a penny. I got the heater out - was a faff on my own getting it clear of everything, but its out. Someone has been here before I think, given the state of the heater box - plenty denty. Had a job freeing the matrix, had to bend the box a tiny bit, it will go back no probs though. I had hoped the leak would be obvious, but not really. Tried to pressure the matrix, and ended up with a bathroom incident and a row, so not doing that again. I think there is evidence of weeping - the copper vanes are green oxidised in one area and there is a tiny bit of crustiness around the same place. I am taking no chances, new matrix it is. I figure I should replace whats left of the foam also - anyone got any suggestions of what to use and where from?
But best news - my bulkhead is as it left the factory, not a single bit of rust (its been well waxoyled it seems).
Anyway - a couple of things i found that might help someone else:
1. the hot cold and direction levers can be undone from the left hand side (I didnt have a long extension/couldn't get into position even if i had) with nothing fancier than a 5/16 open spanner, and some swearing.
2. the motor lever has to be folded on itself at its pivot before the box will come out
3. bonnet, cam cover can stay in place no worries, but i needed to loose off the throttle mount and swing it out the way
4. Ideally employ an octopus to hold the bottom flap shut and lift heater from either side whilst tilting and jiggling.
Thanks for the pointers all, much easier than an MGB heater which i will never do again. Of course, getting it out is only half the story.
all the best
Mick
 
Just finishing my heater fix in a V8. My case was also 'plenty denty' around the core, and panel bending required to get it out. Also plenty of non-original screws. Did not remove the bonnet! If you need a new horizontal rubber seal, Famous Four have them - GBP9.90 under a range rover number, and under a P6 number. Also loosened the throttle linkage to ease the removal. R&R is bad with a PAS steering box on a V8. I undid the controls with a 5/16 spanner from the left with much swearing, but I recommend 1/4 drive extensions to refit the controls from the RHS. As an aside,I found a 1/4-3/8 drive socket set from Teng to be excellent - TTAF32 - no ratchets but a nice mix of normal and deep sockets down to 1/4".
 
jp28 - hearing that makes me feel a bit better - I hate having to bend stuff about (always suspect I am doing it wrong), but could not see any other way of removing the matrix. I managed to get all the original screws out the case - what a strange mix of rivets and screws there is! Its all fresh painted now though, will get new foams and matrix when they arrive, and then hopefully putting back will be no harder than getting out. Thanks for the heads up on the seal - if this is the rubber that sits on the bulkhead that the heater sits on, thankfully mine was in good nick. I suspect it had been replaced - I also suspect the matrix was not original to the car, it looked nothing like what I have seen secondhand or new, and wasn't a very good fit at all. New hoses also ordered, cant think of anything else - and a lot of bits of windscreen cleared out, car has had a broken screen at some point (or a heater from car with a broken screen, who knows!).
all the best
mick
 
While you have the valance off (panel at base of screen, over the heater) check the state of the rubber seal along the base of the screen - its job is to channel screen water off to the sides, to stop it running down the bulkhead and getting under the heater and rusting things down there. mine was completely dried up and useless. mark where the screen meets the rubber at the top before disturbing the clamps, and DONT overtighten the clamps!
 
JP - you are a mind reader! I was just looking at that, and giving it a wipe with seal conditioner - thankfully its still nice and flexible. Busy putting the 'insulation pad' from front of heater box back into a single bit of fluffy mess with some contact adhesive - don't seem to be able to get them new, so want to try to rescue the bits of mine somehow. Just replacement foam to go (current foam has the strength and flexibility of a stale digestive biscuit!) (on order) and it will be good - linkages all nice and free now, but boy, what a complicated lump (but sort of lovely in design) that heater box is. I am quite enjoying this - sometimes nice to do something not done before, and that no matter what, can only be better than what was there.
 
Still waiting for some parts, so doing all the wee jobs as regards heater. This caught my eye whilst removing. It's a connection clearly, and I am thinking it's earth. But has not been connected. Can anyone tell me where the location of the connectionis, and also, whilst the fast fan speed worked fine, the slower speed did not. Could lack of this earth be the reason for that?
As ever, much obliged to you all
Mick
 
Sorry, have the pic this time. This is the fan speed slide
 

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One more question. My apologies for bugging you with this darn heater! It's all back together, new foam, new matrix. But...........the linkage for the top flap that is connected to the switch that also controls the fan. I think it got moved a bit during box removal. I think I saw a picture of its arrangement as regards the levers on the side with flap open or closed. Does anyone have such a picture, so that I can reconnect that last bit. I'm rather concerned that the splines are knackered in either the shaft or the bit it fits into, so I think I better see if any places sell those, but before I decide if needed, could do with a picture to set it up correctly. Or if anyone had such bits they wanted to sell, I am happy to buy. As ever, any advice gratefully received.
Mick
 
That'll do! Thanks so much. Turns out I had it correct, but have a bigger problem. It's not in car yet, but just simulating the use of the top flap lever, it would seem I have something wrong and worn out. The lever seems to fall out of its splined connection. Slides our, unlike the other two levers. I don't really understand what it supposed to hold it in place - unless if course it's held in place once connected up to the interior control, which could make sense. But worse, the splines are worn out, I presume in the grey cast connection to the shaft (as shaft seems hard and splines look okay). Any suggestions? Are these bits available (I have my doubts). Only thing I can think of would be to figure out the position once back in car then use some sort of glue once it's in place, but don't really have much faith in that either! What starts as replacing a matrix and getting heating us growing arms and legs here!
 
The splines on this lever were dead on mine, and not moving the inlet flap. Read my thread in projects - I removed the shaft , cut an M5 thread on the little end knob, relieved the thicker part to improve engagement depth,fitted a locknut. Seems to work. There are a couple of pics on my thread from others that show where the lever should be set.Getting the heater back in place can be a real PITA!
 
Thank you JP. Currently trawling online (no luck yet) to see if anyone has a rough old box going cheap that I could plunder, but that gives me an alternative approach (but don't have a lathe to turn the thicker part down - sure i can find someone though!). I think for now (as the area of problem is accessible in car) might just have to fix the flap open and live with it though. Something to try to track down, if there are any P6's getting broken up, that might be my best route I guess.
best regards
Mick
 
hmmmm..........Loctite 660. I wonder..................bit of an expensive experiment, but handy stuff to have around nonetheless. Think i might give it a go, as can degrease and have a very clean set of surfaces. I will report back.
Next job is to find the 'other end' of the wire (broken) thats fixed to the fan control lever, and reconnect. I am detined to be playing with this heater a bit longer it seems :LOL:
 
Hi Vern, I'm in Scotland, so both available. I think the JBW might be a bit thick for this job, indeed, neither might work given the forces on the join. Hopefully will find a replacement part sometime, other possibility was suggested by JP above, or I guess I could drill, tap and grub screw. Or as its never that warm where i live, could just leave the flap open and have the heating on :hmm:
Its all fun ( I think!)
 
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