Borg Warner 65/66 oil level

Georgie58

New Member
Hi all I am running a Borg Warner 65/66 from an sd1 behind my v8. My problem is the filler tube and dip stick were missing when i got the gearbox and the only one i could get at the time was from a jaguar.
Has anyone got a filler tube and dip stick they would sell to me.
The jag set up takes quit a bit more oil than the rover (info found on the web) which i assume would be due to volume of oil needed to fill the different torque converter and oil cooler setups. ( I may be wrong in this assumption). My thoughts are that the required amount of oil in the gearbox sump when checking cold would be the same for both jag and rover setups. Hence I should be ok to use the jag dipstick and filler tub to get the fill correct when cold. However when hot due to the expansion of the oil and the fact the jag has more oil in the system the "hot" level marks on the stick will be to high to use.
If anyone could send me a picture of a rover dip stick with a measurement showing the relation between hot and cold marks that would be helpfull
 
If the Jag dipstick and tube is from a BW66 it may well be different because the 66 has a deeper sump, but otherwise, if the Jag dipstick and tube are a matched pair from a BW65, you can set the level with that because the Jag and Rover sumps are the same depth. Jag BW65 converters are the same as the Rover, and the BW66 one is only different because of the input shaft spline size. The capacity differece due to cooler sizes won't make any difference to the fluid level. I always set them HOT, and the rise in level won't be much more because of the extra capacity.
 
If your dipstick has a red end then it's the 65, the yellow end is 66 and it has 66 embossed into the handle. Harvey is quite right, the difference is the deeper sump pan
 
Every day's a school day.
Yes every day is even at 60 LOL, The end is yellow so its a 66 and I've gone back to the jag gearbox I took it from which definitely has a deeper sump.
If the entry point of the filler tube in the jag and rover sumps relative to the the bottom of the box where they bolt on is the same then it shouldn't be a problem. ( Need to check this). Otherwise I will look at swoping over the sumps and the oil pick up as I assume that goes deeper into the 66 sump.
 
I've checked the entry point on both gearboxes and the 66 jag is about 15mm lower than the rover but I don't have the clearance to fit the jag sump.
I'm assuming I'm over filling the box. The difference between max and min when cold is about 10mm . Im going to fill to minimum when cold, see how the box performs and recheck when hot but as the expansion of this oil is considerable and there is significantly less in the system I dont expect to reach the hot marks.
Any thoughts on this ...harveyp6
 
The 66 has a spacer between the filter and the valve block because of the deeper sump. I don't think that being overfilled by that amount is going to cause any problems anyway, but setting to the COLD mark will reduce the risk even further.
 
The 66 has a spacer between the filter and the valve block because of the deeper sump. I don't think that being overfilled by that amount is going to cause any problems anyway, but setting to the COLD mark will reduce the risk even further.
Hi Harvey, today i removed the sump on the jag bok and the spacer you mention is 20mm thick. If the filler tube and dip stick were in the jag box, as near as i can tell the cold low mark is level with the sump pan joint and the cold max 10mm above.
When fitted to the rover box the tip of the dip stick is about 5mm above the sump pan joint and the low cold is 15mm above the joint. My plan is to have the cold level set between the tip and cold minimum on the sick and road test for opperation of the box, plus do a stall test.
The box certainly does not like being over filled as when I filled to the hot mark I could feel a vibration at about 2000 rpm.
 
The levels in most of the 35/65/66 boxes is normally around the sump gasket level engine running. Why do you want to do a stall test?
 
The levels in most of the 35/65/66 boxes is normally around the sump gasket level engine running. Why do you want to do a stall test?
I always thought that a stall test gave an indication of under / over fill and as i have no real datum for hot I was thinking of trying when up to temp.
Ideally i would fit the correct filler tube and stick but sadley no longer available new and second hand are rarely available.
Did i read in one of your posts that on the 65 dip stick that hot minimum lines up with cold maximum?
The 66 dip stick hot minimum is quite a bit higher than cold maximum.
 
No, a stall test just overloads the clutches and/or bands, (depending on which gear you do the test in) and rapidly overheats the box, so best avoided unless you are looking for a specific result.

I may well have said that about the levels on a 65 dipstick, I don't remember, but if I did it would have been after looking at a dipstick, as remembering everything can be difficult.

I can't see the point in checking levels COLD. In normal use the boxes run at normal operating temperature, and that's most of the time, so that's when the level needs to be right. As long as there is enough fluid in the box to run the car and get the box up to temp I see no point in checking COLD IMHO.
 
No, a stall test just overloads the clutches and/or bands, (depending on which gear you do the test in) and rapidly overheats the box, so best avoided unless you are looking for a specific result.

I may well have said that about the levels on a 65 dipstick, I don't remember, but if I did it would have been after looking at a dipstick, as remembering everything can be difficult.

I can't see the point in checking levels COLD. In normal use the boxes run at normal operating temperature, and that's most of the time, so that's when the level needs to be right. As long as there is enough fluid in the box to run the car and get the box up to temp I see no point in checking COLD IMHO.
I'll have to try and get the measurements off a 65 stick as i can only work out the cold level
 
If you're using a 66 tube and stick in a 65 box sump, I'd tape the stick to the outside of the tube, and then make you're own mark on the stick at a point level with the sump gasket, see where that level is relative to the marks on there already, and chances are that level will be good enough until you can get the proper stick and tube. All the levels are relative, you're just fighting the extra depth of the 66 box sump, which you're not using.
 
If you're using a 66 tube and stick in a 65 box sump, I'd tape the stick to the outside of the tube, and then make you're own mark on the stick at a point level with the sump gasket, see where that level is relative to the marks on there already, and chances are that level will be good enough until you can get the proper stick and tube. All the levels are relative, you're just fighting the extra depth of the 66 box sump, which you're not using.
Would this be hot or cold
 
Make your new mark and see how it relates to the marks that are on there already. When you get to a point where you have a mark to set it to, check it HOT. Incidently, how are you checking the level?
 
Make your new mark and see how it relates to the marks that are on there already. When you get to a point where you have a mark to set it to, check it HOT. Incidently, how are you checking
Make your new mark and see how it relates to the marks that are on there already. When you get to a point where you have a mark to set it to, check it HOT. Incidently, how are you checking the level?
Hi Harvey this is the results from the check with the stick tapped to the out side of the tube. As you can see the tip of the stick is short of the sump pan joint ( roughly 5mm ). I have been filling the box to cold max as per the correct running procedure after selecting all gears which I am sure is too much oil.
I intend to fill cold running so that i get oil just showing on the stick, road test and check the level when hot.
By the way i found your post from 2011 on the 65 stick regards cold max and hot min being the same level and after a Google search found images of a 65 stick that confirm this
 

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Re your first pic, if the COLD MAX level is approx 15mm above the sump level mark, then as you said the sump fitting was approx 15mm lower on the 66 box, and you're using a 66 dipstick and tube in a 65 box sump then that would put the correct fluid level at around the sump gasket level.

Re your second pic, I can't see anything in what I said in that post that I would alter now.

My advice would be to buy the correct dipstick and tube, and then set the level.
You can put a wanted ad on here, or phone Wins or MGBD, or ask Andy (Eightofthem) on here as he may have one.
 
Re your first pic, if the COLD MAX level is approx 15mm above the sump level mark, then as you said the sump fitting was approx 15mm lower on the 66 box, and you're using a 66 dipstick and tube in a 65 box sump then that would put the correct fluid level at around the sump gasket level.

Re your second pic, I can't see anything in what I said in that post that I would alter now.

My advice would be to buy the correct dipstick and tube, and then set the level.
You can put a wanted ad on here, or phone Wins or MGBD, or ask Andy (Eightofthem) on here as he may have one.
 
Cheers for the contacts I've not tried those.
I was referring to your 2011 post for guidance, as on the jag 66 stick min hot is quie a bit higher than max cold, I assume due to the greater amount of oil to expand in the 66 box, was not suggesting anything was wrong with it. Cheers George
 
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