Clutch master location for conversion

Paulcovy

Member
hi all
I've recently got hold of a 3500s pedal box and master cylinder bracket for my manual conversion.Looking through the manual i see the master is bolted externally and a lever from the pedal comes through the bulkhead ?is this correct?any tips on how to mount it as the fuel reserve tap seems to be where i would have thought it would go.And if any one with a manual v8 could be a darling and get a few pics of theirs as a reference for me that would be grand.Many thanks
 
Hi Paul.
When I broke a 3500s recently I took off the complete assembly, but there is a welded on bracket under the steering box which was cut off this mounts the master cylinder.
You will have to fabricate something else unless you can find a scrapper.
A hole needs to be drilled to allow spindle for clutch pivot to come through.
I took some pictures of the assembly when the engine was removed.
Cobraboy on the forum fitted this kit to his project.
I emailed pictures to him so he may still have them.
Clive.
 
Thanks Clive .... i can fabricate the plate ... and from what I've seen once the hole for the clutch pedal spindle has been drilled it looks like you can offer the master bracket up to that hole and mark off the rest if that makes sense ... I just don't know how crucial the posistion of the hole is I can't imagine it's easy to measure in situ either
 
Hi Clive and Paul
Clive did indeed provide the kit for my conversion.
The problem as you have found is the tap is in the way. I had to undo the tap and cut off its bracket and move the tap to one side. I chickened out welding on the mounting bracket that is on manual cars for the cyl as I felt I could not protect the fuel lines well enough from puncture by weld spatter.
Yes you do need to drill a hole for the shaft to go through and also I had to dress off some metal on the offside of the box aperture in order to swing the box into the hole in the firewall.
To mount the cylinder without using the weld on bracket I looked at the mounting that the cylinder goes on to, this has curved section that goes around the top of the operating shaft, I figured that if this curve was continued into a full circle then it would fit over the shaft and would provide an anchor. I fabricated the 'missing' section and welded it on.
There is a hole in the forward part of the cyl mounting that a bolt goes through on a manual car and I marked through this and drilled into the car and installed a rivnut in the sheet metal. I turned up a top hat bush from brass to take up the difference between the quite large hole in the mounting and the bolt and bolted it up tight.
This held the cylinder really well from being pushed upward but it nodded a little sideways toward the outside of the car.
To stop this I threaded a length of studding through one of the original fixing holes with a locknut on each side, the studding adjusted to contact the steering box.
I had planned to weld on the OEM bracket next time the engine bay is clear of engine and fuel lines etc, but the install is working very well ATM.
 
I didn't do the conversion on mine but I did take a few pics when I stripped it down during the rebuild





Any help?
 
Yea that's a great help thanks .... I finished mounting it today.I had to remove the reserve tap bracket to make space and re weld it after .. coming along
 
One of the options which converters have done in the past does away with the 3500s set up.

It has been done on this thread ( Re: P6 project: BW35 to LT77 manual box swap: the verdict). Interesting read.

Basically get a manual 4 cyl pedal box and drill a hole in the Auto mounting plate which you flip to raise the cylinders an inch or so higher.

gboxswap5_zps3fdaee69-1.jpg


gboxswap6_zps7c7d77ba-1.jpg

gboxswap8_zps5d5338e3.jpg
 
I did see that set up and was initially going to go down that route as I had a 4cyl pedal box and couldn't get hold of a v8 one ..... but i was then able to locate one ..... I think it would have been simpler to do it that way in hindsight as everything is there , where as I've had to source a mount for the master and make up ways of mounting it by welding ect ...
 
One of the options which converters have done in the past does away with the 3500s set up.

It has been done on this thread ( Re: P6 project: BW35 to LT77 manual box swap: the verdict). Interesting read.

Basically get a manual 4 cyl pedal box and drill a hole in the Auto mounting plate which you flip to raise the cylinders an inch or so higher.

gboxswap5_zps3fdaee69-1.jpg


gboxswap6_zps7c7d77ba-1.jpg

gboxswap8_zps5d5338e3.jpg

What a brilliantly simple solution, I wish I'd thought of that years ago when I did my conversion.
 
One of the options which converters have done in the past does away with the 3500s set up.

It has been done on this thread ( Re: P6 project: BW35 to LT77 manual box swap: the verdict). Interesting read.

Basically get a manual 4 cyl pedal box and drill a hole in the Auto mounting plate which you flip to raise the cylinders an inch or so higher.


gboxswap8_zps5d5338e3.jpg

Won't that get a little warm, being that close to manifold?

Richard
 
Does anyone know if the clutch master from a Land Rover will fit as they seem to be considerably cheaper than the p6 ones ?
 
I reckon it is worth a go, though buy the best quality one you can.

I fitted a landrover one to my 2200 and it worked. check the bore size but even if it is a bit different you probably wont notice much difference.
 
Won't that get a little warm, being that close to manifold?
You'd think so, but it causes no problems whatsoever in regular use. I've just had DOT 5.1 fluid put in when renewing the brake and clutch fluid to give some extra temperature resistance, thinking that heat might be a problem, but it's made no difference to the operation. The master cylinder, heat shield (not shown in those photos above) and manifold are all covered in the heat insulation wrap which must make a difference. The slave cylinder is right by the exhaust as well, which no doubt contributes some heat into the system, although it's that much further away from the engine and in a reasonable amount of airflow.

Be warned though - mounting the cylinders that inch higher will cause you problems unless you prepare accordingly. I've been struggling to get enough adjustment on the clutch to get the pedals in the correct position (the comment above about the mount being an inch higher has given the final explanation, so thanks for that!). The clutch pedal has been cut-and shut, but I'm still short of approx 20mm of pedal travel on both that and the brake, so there are two options:
Cut and shut both the clutch and brake pedals to give the correct clearance.
Make and install longer than standard pushrods.

Both of which aren't particularly difficult - I'm probably going to go for option 2 as I can quantify exactly how much longer they need to be and I don't have to dismantle the whole pedal assembly. Both solutions are easy enough to sort out as a part of the conversion, in any case, whichever route you decided to go down.
 
Hi Clive and Paul
Clive did indeed provide the kit for my conversion.
The problem as you have found is the tap is in the way. I had to undo the tap and cut off its bracket and move the tap to one side. I chickened out welding on the mounting bracket that is on manual cars for the cyl as I felt I could not protect the fuel lines well enough from puncture by weld spatter.
Yes you do need to drill a hole for the shaft to go through and also I had to dress off some metal on the offside of the box aperture in order to swing the box into the hole in the firewall.
To mount the cylinder without using the weld on bracket I looked at the mounting that the cylinder goes on to, this has curved section that goes around the top of the operating shaft, I figured that if this curve was continued into a full circle then it would fit over the shaft and would provide an anchor. I fabricated the 'missing' section and welded it on.
There is a hole in the forward part of the cyl mounting that a bolt goes through on a manual car and I marked through this and drilled into the car and installed a rivnut in the sheet metal. I turned up a top hat bush from brass to take up the difference between the quite large hole in the mounting and the bolt and bolted it up tight.
This held the cylinder really well from being pushed upward but it nodded a little sideways toward the outside of the car.
To stop this I threaded a length of studding through one of the original fixing holes with a locknut on each side, the studding adjusted to contact the steering box.
I had planned to weld on the OEM bracket next time the engine bay is clear of engine and fuel lines etc, but the install is working very well ATM.

So there I was, sitting in my empty engine bay this afternoon (yup, lump'n'autobox now removed) with a printout of Quattro's install photos in one hand, holding the clutch master bracket in what looks approximately like where it ought to go with the other hand, and puzzling. A whole lot. Until I re-read this thread and found Cobraboy's description.
I particularly like the words "missing section", welded" and "fabricated", all of which scare me. Who said a manual-into-automatic swap would be easy? (Reaches for wine bottle, sighing). "I turned up a top hat bush from brass to take up the difference..." is also a phrase that makes it pretty clear I'll be having to expand my skillset if I'm going to get this car back on the road. Ahh. Fun times ahead.
 
So there I was, sitting in my empty engine bay this afternoon (yup, lump'n'autobox now removed) with a printout of Quattro's install photos in one hand, holding the clutch master bracket in what looks approximately like where it ought to go with the other hand, and puzzling. A whole lot. Until I re-read this thread and found Cobraboy's description.
I particularly like the words "missing section", welded" and "fabricated", all of which scare me. Who said a manual-into-automatic swap would be easy? (Reaches for wine bottle, sighing). "I turned up a top hat bush from brass to take up the difference..." is also a phrase that makes it pretty clear I'll be having to expand my skillset if I'm going to get this car back on the road. Ahh. Fun times ahead.
If your using the 3500s clutch master bracket it’s easy to weld a section in and either weld a nut to it or drill a hole for a nut and bolt ,, didn’t take long and once painted you can’t see it any way
 
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So there I was, sitting in my empty engine bay this afternoon (yup, lump'n'autobox now removed) with a printout of Quattro's install photos in one hand, holding the clutch master bracket in what looks approximately like where it ought to go with the other hand, and puzzling. A whole lot. Until I re-read this thread and found Cobraboy's description.
I particularly like the words "missing section", welded" and "fabricated", all of which scare me. Who said a manual-into-automatic swap would be easy? (Reaches for wine bottle, sighing). "I turned up a top hat bush from brass to take up the difference..." is also a phrase that makes it pretty clear I'll be having to expand my skillset if I'm going to get this car back on the road. Ahh. Fun times ahead.
I probably came up with my method of fixing after reaching for the wine bottle, so after 2 hrs now the wine should be gone and you will be well on the way ............
I like Paulcovy's bracket, I wonder if he bolted or welded it to the car ?
Either way mrtask you have a tame welder chappie nearby so getting it fixed in shouldn't take long. Keep the momentum going now, come on no slacking !
 
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