Cooling Fans

dmcsweeney

dmcsweeney

Active Member
Hi all,
was just woundering if anyone has tried one of these fans as an alternative to kenlowe? I'm also not sure what size i can squeeze in as I'm away from the cars for a change :( .

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/16-RADIATOR-COOLI ... 03078#shId

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/14-RADIATOR-COOLI ... 588d04e4be

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12-RADIATOR-COOLI ... 1c1a05bf79

I'd aprechiate it if someone could have a quick look at their car, don't trust my father to measure mine correctly :LOL: .
I take it that the fan should push the air in from in front of the rad? I want to keep the mechanical fan and just use the eletric one for traffic.

Regards,
Dave
 
Dave, I'm certain that the 14" one will fit but you'll almost certainly need to make a cut out for the motor like this.

DSCN5948.jpg


I reckon that the 16" one would fit too though as there's enough room for it to slot behind the PAS hose at the bottom and tuck up behind the bonnet catch at the top.

How do you intend to operate it, just a manual switch?
 
testrider said:
Dave, I'm certain that the 14" one will fit but you'll almost certainly need to make a cut out for the motor like this.


I reckon that the 16" one would fit too though as there's enough room for it to slot behind the PAS hose at the bottom and tuck up behind the bonnet catch at the top.

How do you intend to operate it, just a manual switch?
Click to expand...

Cheers for that. Had intended using a manual switch on the dash, for now at least. Have seen some nice stats recently though, complete with a housing that can be fitted directly into the rad hose with jublee clips so may take that route in a while. I'll be fitting an aux fuse/relay unit under the bonnet and taking the feed directly off the solinoid. Not sure about the 16" if it is that tight a fit. Wounder if it would make that much of a difference?
Regards,
Dave
 
Dave

If you're just looking for some auxilliary cooling whilst in traffic to augment the mechanical fan then a 14" should do the trick, in fact a quick blast with the mechanical fan at about 2000rpm should also cool things down. That said, I would always try to fit the biggest fan possible and the performance will depend on how efficient your cooling system is at the moment. I have removed my mechanical fan and fitted a Revotec fan switch into the radiator top hose to control a 14" fan on the front of the rad via a relay. This is sufficient to keep it cool most of the time but it gets a bit dicey in the peak of summer if stuck in traffic for too long so I'm looking to replace with a 16". The big advantage of retaining the mechanical fan is that it draws cool air in and around the engine bay helping to maintain the underbonnet temperature at a comfortable level for the engine. I'm not sure an electric fan on the front of the rad would do the same.

The fans you've listed only draw 80W max which is not a lot in comparison to the equivalent Kenlowe 200+W and that gives you an indication of how much air they will push/pull. The 14" one looks like the one I have and is marginal. The 16" one might just be powerful enough to make the difference but I'd still opt for the Kenlowe as they are proven performers (as long as you can afford one). Alternatively, trawl the local breakers and see if you can find a commercial size fan.

Dave
 
Bruiser survives very well without the mechanical fan. Admittedly there is an extra row in the radiator & a header tank & my fan is a puller, but retaining the engine fan seems a bit pointless TBH. It really isn't needed at all for most of the year & if we do have a hot summer then you can always bolt it back on for a few weeks if you feel the need.
 
Dave/Grim/RM,
thanks for the replies lads. I fully intend keeping the mechanical fan, just as I've kept the mechanical fuel pump, an only use it in real emergencies. The advantage I see with the lower motor rating is that the alternator will be able to keep up at low engine speeds, but feel better about running the mechanical one most of the time to prevent possible discharge. Generally the cars run nice and cool, but there have been times they have heated up in traffic (middle of summer in bad jams), so it's a comfort thing really. I'm looking at going for cheaper fans as they may never see use, and also because I'll potentially be fitting 3. My first priority is my white car as I have to drive for a friends wedding in June and given all the problems I've had I'm taking the belt and braces approach.
Regards,
Dave
 
dmcsweeney said:
Dave/Grim/RM,
thanks for the replies lads. I fully intend keeping the mechanical fan, just as I've kept the mechanical fuel pump, an only use it in real emergencies. The advantage I see with the lower motor rating is that the alternator will be able to keep up at low engine speeds, but feel better about running the mechanical one most of the time to prevent possible discharge. Generally the cars run nice and cool, but there have been times they have heated up in traffic (middle of summer in bad jams), so it's a comfort thing really. I'm looking at going for cheaper fans as they may never see use, and also because I'll potentially be fitting 3. My first priority is my white car as I have to drive for a friends wedding in June and given all the problems I've had I'm taking the belt and braces approach.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
I understand your train of thought, which works pefectly in theory :D

I've always fitted leccy fans to get rid of the std item though which serves as an upgrade rather than an addition as such. If you fitted a good fan then you can always try that out as it's nicer without IMO :)

If I were cleverer :oops: I'd know if the lesser fan would help airflow much as the fixed fan is already controlling the flow. So if it wasn't more efficient than the std item would it be worth having or would it hinder? :?
One for the scientific among us I fear and purely being a nuisance on your thread as I'd hate for you to not get much gain for your money :wink: Feel free to ignore my ramblings as I'm inbetween coats of paint :|
 
Thermo fans are one piece of equipment that would be a perfect addition out here in Australia. The problem though in the case of my Rover is that there is simply no room in which to fit them. Running a transmission oil cooler which I consider to be essential, occupies the space in front of my three core radiator. So unless I were to remove the engine driven fan which spins on a viscous coupling....which I have no wish to do, no space remains.

Even so, sitting in traffic on a 36 degree C day, my engine has never overheated although the needle has come pretty close to reaching the red. I expect that is more down to luck than effiency, so in a perfect world I will have at least one thermo fan, air conditioning and a transmission oil cooler, all occupying the same space at the same time. Now,...if only the laws of Physics would allow that.... :(

Ron.
 
The water pump is the biggest problem with getting a decent puller fan on. Question for me is whether it's possible to machine the water pump front down a little so you can fit a bigger fan in..

The big plus for me on the electric fan front is the increased fuel economy of removing the mechanical fan...
 
GrimV8 said:
If I were cleverer :oops: I'd know if the lesser fan would help airflow much as the fixed fan is already controlling the flow. So if it wasn't more efficient than the std item would it be worth having or would it hinder? :?
One for the scientific among us I fear and purely being a nuisance on your thread as I'd hate for you to not get much gain for your money :wink: Feel free to ignore my ramblings as I'm inbetween coats of paint :|
Click to expand...

Thanks again gents. Grim I think I understand where you are going with that one. I'm quite happy to become a test pilot on this one, could try fitting one for starters and see how it goes. I have plenty other uses for it if it turns out to be no good :LOL: Could always drop one in and then remove the mechanical fan to see what happens. I have a strange feeling that it would be useless at higher revs in comparison to the mechanical fan but far more efficient at idle in traffic, but that is just an idle guess. Call me nuts but given the importance of my duties in June I want to be sure I have a backup plan.
Regards,
Dave
 
AFAIK, it's at high rev's (when you're cruising) when the mechanical fan becomes most superfluous, as the ram-air effect will keep the engine plenty cool enough & the mechanical fan just becomes a spinning weight on the front of the engine which reduces power (marginally) & wastes fuel. It's only really when you're stop/starting or idling that you need the fan at all & an electric fan can simply be switched on in these situations.
 
The Rovering Member said:
AFAIK, it's at high rev's (when you're cruising) when the mechanical fan becomes most superfluous, as the ram-air effect will keep the engine plenty cool enough & the mechanical fan just becomes a spinning weight on the front of the engine which reduces power (marginally) & wastes fuel. It's only really when you're stop/starting or idling that you need the fan at all & an electric fan can simply be switched on in these situations.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right

When cruising the temp of my engine rarely reaches 85 and usually sits at about 80 on the guage without the mechanical fan fitted. It's only when stopped that the temp starts to creep up. I have my electric fan set to come on quite early, just as the needle touches 85 to give it a fighting chance to keep it cool but even with a 3 core rad and clean system the electric fan alone will not reduce the temp, just stop it rising (unless it's the height of summer on a hot motorway).

The clearance between rad and water pump nose is the main stopper (especially with a thicker 3 core rad) to fitting a fan that will suck enough air to match the mechanical fan, although I think Richard quattro managed to move his rad slightly to allow extra clearance. Not ideal for when you want to drain the system as moving the rad takes the drain plug away from the access hole in the valance. I guess if you only drain the system every other year then you could live with it to aid with the cooling fan clearance.

If a shortened water pump was available then I'd certainly be interested to hear of anyone's experience of it on a P6. For now though I'll probably be refitting my mechanical fan for the summer months and living with the slight drop in power and increase in fuel consumption.

Dave
 
oK A few basics here.

First off Australian and NZ memebers with the viscous coupling and plastic fan can ignore this threas altogether as their set up is already roughly equivalent in efficiency to an electric fan.

Next up a heads up on the two fans pictured here. The staright balded fan with an 80W motor is the bargain basement version technically. The tips of the fan are going to be doing all the work and the centre of the fan contributing very little. That's why it's only worth putting an 80W motor on it. The Kenlowe has a space age high tech fan design that means the tips of the blades do roughly the same amaount of work as the centres. That means you can load it up with a much heavier motor. So the two fans are very definitely not equivalent. The Kenlowe will substitute your mechanical fan completely. The staright bladed one is likely to only be an emergency helper. If you can get a big enough one in (16"?), you might be lucky and just get away with junking the engine fan.

Why would you want to junk the engine driven fan? Because it uses huge amounts of power! It's not a very efficient design (look at the Kenlowe blades again), so in order for it to provide enough cooling blast when the car is stationary at idle - which is the most severe condition - it has to be massively oversized when running at full engine revs. There's potentially 20 bhp there to divert from driving the fan to accelerating the car! Or you could take it home as better petrol consumption.

If you didn't junk the engine driven fan and merely fitted an 80W straight blade fan to insure against overhetaing, then my own view is that you would have been better off spending the time and money on fitting a three row core in your radiator and on making sure that the rest of the cooling system was 100%. For instance you should make sure you have good coolant circulation in the inlet manifold by ungumming the feed into the carburretor tower. That way you'd probably eliminate fuel starvation at the same time!

Now on to the control system. There are two versions of Kenlowe system. The earliest version uses a temperature probe lodged under the top hose with a capilliary tube to a mechnically triggered switch to operate the fan. Later ones have the same arrangement lodged between the radiator fins. Also out there are a number of systems which are electronic systems designed to operate off a standard wet temperature sensor. There are then a number of ways of installing an additional wet sensor into the cooling system. Dave mentions the aluminium pipe section able to be spliced into the top hose and there is also a variation on the standard thermostat elbow able to accept an additional sensor. It may also be possible to use the otter switch on the inlet manifold.

I have a strong anti to the Kenlowe mechanical systems, so am prepared to go some distance to use one of the electronic systems.

Chris
 
Thanks for your input Chris. I do see your point of view with regard to the design of the fan in comparison to the kenlowe, however, it is also a fraction of the price. I would certainly consider fitting a kenlowe to the red car and removing the mechanical fan as I plan to use it regularly, and I would welcome the extra power liberated in the process. However, at the moment, I just want to add one purely as a precaution with my upcomming wedding duties in mind. I feel that as I'm not looking for a power increase, or trying to solve a particular problem on the other cars I can't really justify the cost of 3 kenlowes when the money could be better spent on other aspects of the cars. I have also seen this fan
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-16-INCH ... 8196734146
which seems to have had a little more though put into it than the previous one in terms of the blade design (looks quite similar to the kenlowe. I'll certainly take your advice on the inlet manifold tower and check for blockage. I also intend removing and flushing the rads. I have only once suffer serious over heating, which was cured by a rad flush, but have suffer fuel vapourisation due to rising temperatures. This should now be dealth with by the electric pumps/insulation/rerouting works. Any further thoughs?
Regards,
Dave
 
Hi, in the text for the first 16" fan it says the blades are curved. So possibly
the same Product. The first one is cheaper but is plus postage, so the second
one although dearer is post free.

Colin
 
This fan has a slightly higher rating (112w). However, I phoned the supplier for dimensions, 17" in diameter and nearly 31/2" in depth, so it may not fit :( . Can any one confirm this?
Regards,
Dave
 
Hi all, I've tried twice (unsucessfully :( ) to explain over the phone what measurements I need off my car to see if the last fan i listed will fit. If one of you is near a car could you please get me a measurement? The fan is 17" overall and the depth to the rear of the motor is 31/2".
Regards,
Dave
 
Dave, the motor depth is irrelevant really because you'll have to make a cut out in the valance behind the grill anyway.

The critical measurements you need are:-

Depth from the front of the radiator to the back of the bonnet catch
Total height of the radiator
Depth from from the front of the radiator to the PAS hose (although you can move this if needed)

You'll also need to know the thickness of the fan at the edge.

I can't help you with the numbers though as the front of my car is in bits at the moment.
 
testrider said:
Dave, the motor depth is irrelevant really because you'll have to make a cut out in the valance behind the grill anyway.

The critical measurements you need are:-

Depth from the front of the radiator to the back of the bonnet catch
Total height of the radiator
Depth from from the front of the radiator to the PAS hose (although you can move this if needed)

You'll also need to know the thickness of the fan at the edge.

I can't help you with the numbers though as the front of my car is in bits at the moment.
Click to expand...

Thanks again Paul. The one piece of information I managed to get from my father this morning before he had to run off was a measurement from the front of the rad to the inside of the valance at the mid point of the rad which was 65mm, so, in theory the slimline fan should go straight in. I'll contact the supplier of the other fan and get the outside depth (at the outer casing of the fan) if I can. I don't mind cutting a small piece out for the motor if required but am more worried about the main body of it fitting.
I'd apprechiate it if someone on here could take a few more measurements to show what I have to play with.
Regards,
Dave
 
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