Early 3500S - age verification (changed subject title)

[stickydog]

You may well have seen the white 3500s I have had for sale on ebay for weeks? HOT ROD ROVER. (voodoostreetwear seller ID)
This is mainly to draw attention to our other items rather than to shift the car

Having been on the receiving end of quite a respectable MOT fail sheet last week, I note with interest that the date of approx first use is 01/07/1971. Can't find when the first S was produced... so...

Had a look around the forum and offer forward the following info. for your expert consideration:

Base unit on screwed/ rivetted plate in boot is BM010326 - see also probably the orininal paint colour - is this grey or green?

Car reg. ENR 455K

Engine number as shown in attached pic.

Chassis number on screwed/ rivetted in plate on near side wing: 48103117A

Has black leather box pleat interior, and steel electric sliding sunroof (looks factory).

Is the base unit from a series 1? or is this an early 3500s? The glass is tinted and is etched with a later M reg....as are the headlights....

Any info. appreciated!

Cheers fellas

 

[harveyp6]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

I note with interest that the date of approx first use is 01/07/1971.

Car reg. ENR 455K

If it was registered on that date it should be on a "J" plate.

Engine number as shown in attached pic.

That's a later engine number than 1972, and, I think, and auto engine by the number.

Chassis number on screwed/ rivetted in plate on near side wing: 48103117A

That's a 3500S chassis number, they start with 481...

Has black leather box pleat interior.

The glass is tinted and is etched with a later M reg....as are the headlights....

An early "S" would have come with Ambla boxpleat trim, but the car could be over 40 years old by now, so trims get changed, as do the sets of glass to get Sundym, which wasn't on the early cars either. Headlights can also be changed. You just have to work out whether it's a case of used replacement parts being fitted over time, or someone jacking up the numberplates, and fitting a replacement car.....

 

[stickydog]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

12/07/1972 date first registered on the V5.

But..., it says 01/07/1971 as date of Approx first use. on the VOSA fail sheet???

 

[harveyp6]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

12/07/1972 date first registered on the V5.

But..., it says 01/07/1971 as date of Approx first use. on the VOSA fail sheet???

It may have been exported when new, and then registered when it returned to the UK.

 

[Ethelred]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

Test centres often guess at the first use date - I have several contradictions among my vehicles' paperworks. I guess that is why it is 'approximate'

The width of the transmission tunnel should surely banish any doubts as to whether it is a real series 2 3500?

 

[harveyp6]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

The width of the transmission tunnel should surely banish any doubts as to whether it is a real 3500S?

Edited the above for you, all the V8 autos had the same tunnel, regardless of series one or two, or gearbox type, it's the manual tunnel that's different.

 

[Ethelred]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

The width of the transmission tunnel should surely banish any doubts as to whether it is a real 3500S?

Edited the above for you, all the V8 autos had the same tunnel, regardless of series one or two, or gearbox type, it's the manual tunnel that's different.

Oh yeah - typo - missed the S - sorry about that. You know what I meant though

 

[stickydog]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

Hmmm, interesting, thank you. The base unit number seems low for a series 2 3500S though doesn't it ? How do I determine if it is an auto transmission tunnel or not? (sorry guys not too clued up on this!).

 

[Ethelred]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

I don't know the exact dimensions (but I think I know a few who might ) but the tunnel so much bigger in the 3500 than the 3500S that you can spot a fake S just by sticking your head in the car and taking a look.

 

[stickydog]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

I don't know the exact dimensions (but I think I know a few who might ) but the tunnel so much bigger in the 3500 than the 3500S that you can spot a fake S just by sticking your head in the car and taking a look.

That rules me out I'm afraid*!

The base unit 'ID' number 'seems' low for a series 2 3500s. Yet I don't 'think*' it is an auto tunnel. It is on a '72 plate. Why would a series 1 base unit number be put on to a later base unit (one explanation). Or is there a crossover. Again apologies for my lack of knowledge. :?

 

[Pilkie]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

Looking at your cockpit pics and playing with the contrast,it is a manual gearbox tunnel as its the narrow one!
So it is a genuine 3500S series 2 baseunit,not a series 1.
I would ignore the 1st used date,go by the 1st reg'd date.
The 3500S manual was launched in 1971,but the 3500S auto was the name of the earlier series 1 export cars!
BM base unit refers to V8 base manual,numbers were not always used in sequence,but it is high. :?:
Can you see any chassis numbers stamped into both the inner wings just in front of the bonnet mounts?,maybe covered in heavy paint!

 

[stickydog]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

Looking at your cockpit pics and playing with the contrast,it is a manual gearbox tunnel as its the narrow one!
So it is a genuine 3500S series 2 baseunit,not a series 1.
I would ignore the 1st used date,go by the 1st reg'd date.
The 3500S manual was launched in 1971,but the 3500S auto was the name of the earlier series 1 export cars!
BM base unit refers to base manual,numbers were not always used in sequence.
Can you see any chassis numbers stamped into both the inner wings just in front of the bonnet mounts?,maybe covered in heavy paint!

Thanks fella, I'll have a look tomorrow...

 

[stickydog]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

Had a good look around. Can't see any stamped numbers or evidence of cover- up...

 

[stickydog]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

Can anyone shed any light on the colour of the paint visible next to the BM tag. The tag is the same colour as have just scraped some black paint away. Thanks.

 

[tonys]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

Chassis / VIn no. 481 series is for RHD 3500S Home Market.

James Taylor's book shows 4,546 Home Market RHD 3500S made in 1972 (none shown for 1971). However, it could be argued that they were introduced for the 1972 model year.

ENR...K was first issued July 1972.

The chassis number is approx. what could be expected for a car regd July 1972.

Engine no. 485..... is for 3500S manual, 10.5:1 compression ratio; again, engine number is not a million miles away from chassis no.

Leather trim was optional on 3500S from Jan 1972.

Re colour, I can't really see from my screen, why do you say grey / green? Lunar Grey was a very light greenish shade, not introduced until August 1972.

Where did the VOSA first used date come from? I suspect someone has simply mixed up the year for a K plate and put July 1971.

 

[ewokracing]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

slight segway off topic, but where all 'S' cars, both export and local UK cars, built with the manual 4spd gearbox?

 

[Ethelred]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

slight segway off topic, but where all 'S' cars, both export and local UK cars, built with the manual 4spd gearbox?

The series 1 3500S, known as the NADA, is automatic.

 

[NickDunning]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

I've just had a look at this thread. I do get the feeling the car is a later 3500S that's got the plates of a 'K' reg on it.

The base unit number is far too high for an early manual 'S' (BM being p6B Manual). There were only about 17000 of them built, this would put it over halfway through the run, potentially a 1974-1975 car.

I have some 1974 era 3500S base unit numbers recorded at home, will check later.

Cheers
Nick

 

[Pilkie]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

And the small chassis number plate on the n/s inner wing should be welded on not screwed or riveted!
Chassis number also stamped into the inner wing will be very close to this!

 

[stickydog]

Re: Early 3500S - series 1 base unit? Ringer?

And the small chassis number plate on the n/s inner wing should be welded on not screwed or riveted!
Chassis number also stamped into the inner wing will be very close to this!

That's what I thought at first, but I'm not so sure now. The paint on top of the screwed/ rivetted in plate on the boot lip is the same colour as the base body colour. And it looks like it has been there a while... I get the feeling that no one else has ever seen it apart from me let alone swapped it from one car to another. And if this number doesn't correspond with the K plate reg number car then why swap it over? Surely they would have put the correct one for the base unit that the reg was off? As established everything seems to be 3500s? Is there anything else that we can identify it from.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated!