Electric P6e

unstable load said:
With that in mind, I for one would like to hang onto my P6, so the thought of electrifying it, while abhorrent, is about the only way to do that once the future takes root.
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I really don’t think there is any need to worry. It’s only NEW cars that are supposed to be all electric from 2040. There will still be petrol engined vehicles running after that and they will have to provide the infrastructure for them. So I have no plans to electrify my P6 any time soon!
 
So Cal V8 said:
Surely one of the LS range would be better than that old boat anchor?
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Probably, but then it's only a V8...;)
In all seriousness, if the P38 wasn't so electronically complicated, I'd try to find a Merc V8 diesel to drop into it. That would free up the 4.6
to go into my P6.....and ten, I'd have to find myself a Mini Clubman for the 3.5....... oh dear..so much work, so little money...:eek::(
 
Double groan, these people should get a life, my attention evaporated after a full second of watching it, even multiple skips though almost made me medically Comatose.

Graeme
 
Hi.
Hate to put a spanner in the works but do you know how much safety training it takes just to service a normal hybrid?
Would hate to think of the consequences of touching the 400 volt battery pack / motor or cables.
No second chance instant death!
Clive.
 
The wheeler dealers Maserati Biturbo program on wheeler dealers wasn't bad. Mind you no one minds sacrificing a genuinely bad car like that.
 
Back in the 60s several of my mates inverted their Triumph Heralds and Spitfires due to the dreaded rear swing-axle jack-up.
Sticking a hefty battery/motor package in the rear would be one way of controlling it.;)
But then again, what about weight transfer in bends :eek: :(
 
I would think a Herald is a great choice, easy to take apart and rebuild, simple mechanics and not rare or valuable. But god that was 5 minutes of interesting information crammed into 15.
 
I think this would be very interesting from an engineering point of view, but I have to agree with the point made above - if you really want an electric car, get a modern production model. At the risk of sounding like a luddite, despite the trumpetings of governments, I would be very surprised indeed if ICE manufacture stops until electric vehicles become as convenient - which would require a quantum leap in battery technology. Correct me if I’m wrong, but even the latest batteries have very limited range and very long charge times. The technology is just not there yet.
 
Ulrich said:
I think this would be very interesting from an engineering point of view, but I have to agree with the point made above - if you really want an electric car, get a modern production model. At the risk of sounding like a luddite, despite the trumpetings of governments, I would be very surprised indeed if ICE manufacture stops until electric vehicles become as convenient - which would require a quantum leap in battery technology. Correct me if I’m wrong, but even the latest batteries have very limited range and very long charge times. The technology is just not there yet.
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I can easily see a situation whereby hybrids are the norm and the ICE becomes smaller and smaller over time, maybe even replaced by a catalytic fuel cell. And I can see this happening over a long time ensuring petrol is available. The joker of course being legislation. The truth is the best batteries have about 4% of the energy density of petrol, energy recovery mitigates this a little. A Tesla may look big and clever but at the end of the day it really takes nearly 550kg of batteries and is basically the weight of a fully loaded Range Rover overall. That's not a viable proposition for mainstream motoring and there are still diesels with nearly 4 times the range and can be refuelled in minutes anywhere. It's easy to sell a car over a horse as it's a huge functional upgrade. Once the cool and wow factor subsides, a battery car still only does 70mph on the motorway and will continue to offer compromised utility ultimately with foreseeable technology. Do I want one, yes. Do I want one as my next car, no. Nor probably 2-3 after that.

Also if you could have batteries that match petrol, you'd have a very effective concealed explosive device.
 
lithium ion battery technology is dead, it just doesn't know it yet, as I detailed on an earlier thread.
Weight, power density and fast recharge times all have a cure with the up an coming graphene battery tech.
That said it will take some time for the new disruptive tech to prove its commercial and technical savvy, there is a lot of cash invested in the current lithium paradigm.

My self I think a good half step is good hybrid tech, not the Prius kind which really is rubbish! Have a look at what Honda is doing with their hybrid electric Accord, it really is an efficient and fantastic driving car, I have taken a few on extended test drives and really loved them.
Of course you could go full electric fairly cheaply today with likes of Nissan Leafs and the like or the i3 or the half and half Mitsubishi outlander.

Whatever way you think about it electric cars have already grabbed a significant foot hold and we can expect to see them dominating the market in the next 8 to 12 years....... I of course will still be driving my same P6B that I have since 1987!


Graeme
 
ghce said:
lithium ion battery technology is dead, it just doesn't know it yet, as I detailed on an earlier thread.
Weight, power density and fast recharge times all have a cure with the up an coming graphene battery tech.
That said it will take some time for the new disruptive tech to prove its commercial and technical savvy, there is a lot of cash invested in the current lithium paradigm.

My self I think a good half step is good hybrid tech, not the Prius kind which really is rubbish! Have a look at what Honda is doing with their hybrid electric Accord, it really is an efficient and fantastic driving car, I have taken a few on extended test drives and really loved them.
Of course you could go full electric fairly cheaply today with likes of Nissan Leafs and the like or the i3 or the half and half Mitsubishi outlander.

Whatever way you think about it electric cars have already grabbed a significant foot hold and we can expect to see them dominating the market in the next 8 to 12 years....... I of course will still be driving my same P6B that I have since 1987!


Graeme
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There are "rumblings" Graeme from some local govt's at the moment , 'bout not allowing ice cars into their cities. Could spread like cancer as politians clamber for recognition and score hot points.
 
Ulrich said:
I think this would be very interesting from an engineering point of view, but I have to agree with the point made above - if you really want an electric car, get a modern production model.
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That has to depend what you want out of it. As a paper exercise, I have established that for me, a conversion of an older vehicle would make sense for my daily commute.
Get a modern production model? No! Because, get this - I like old cars. That's why I drive a P6 (and P4).
Would I convert a P6? No, because a 1970's pickup or van would make the job a lot easier and is better designed to carry the weight of the batteries.
My commute is 13 miles each way on A roads, much of which has a 50mph speed limit. That's all I'd use an electric vehicle for. It would not be my only vehicle, it would just take the heat off the classics for 3 or 4 days a week. I can't be the only person with similarly specific requirements.
 
I shouldn’t be at all surprised if hybrids become very common quite soon, in order to cut local air pollution. I wasn’t aware of graphene battery technology - it sounds very promising and may permit the development of electric cars with the convenience of ICE cars. But there’s another stumbling block in that power to charge them has to be generated somehow and (at least in cold countries like the uk) I think I’m right in saying that the only way to do this reliably and in large quantities is through fossil fuels or nuclear - both of which produce harmful by-products! As for restricting entrance to cities for older cars, well, it’s already begun. The mayor of London has recently announced a plan to prevent all ICE vehicles over ten years old from entering the city. So, a new particulate producing diesel is fine, whereas my comparatively much cleaner ‘96 xj6 is not! Some confused thinking here I think.
 
Ulrich said:
I shouldn’t be at all surprised if hybrids become very common quite soon, in order to cut local air pollution. I wasn’t aware of graphene battery technology - it sounds very promising and may permit the development of electric cars with the convenience of ICE cars. But there’s another stumbling block in that power to charge them has to be generated somehow and (at least in cold countries like the uk) I think I’m right in saying that the only way to do this reliably and in large quantities is through fossil fuels or nuclear - both of which produce harmful by-products! As for restricting entrance to cities for older cars, well, it’s already begun. The mayor of London has recently announced a plan to prevent all ICE vehicles over ten years old from entering the city. So, a new particulate producing diesel is fine, whereas my comparatively much cleaner ‘96 xj6 is not! Some confused thinking here I think.
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How is "the city" defined? Quite a few high-end classics owned by the wealthy in central London. Would residency grant exception? In Germany cities are restricted but historical vehicles (H-plate or foreign equivalent) are exempted. Presumably because their numbers and frequency of use mean they aren't a problem in the scheme of things. I'm all for restriction but in the UK you do fear some half-arsed, ill-thought-out legislation which is a "catch-all".

Part of the problem is many of the offending vehicles are so durable. I had a 1998 Audi A4 diesel which had nearly 300,000km on the clock. I have no doubt it could do another 100,000 with basic maintenance. What is needed is targeted scrappage schemes, so trading those in becomes a no brainer.
 
Willy Eckerslyke said:
That has to depend what you want out of it. As a paper exercise, I have established that for me, a conversion of an older vehicle would make sense for my daily commute.
Get a modern production model? No! Because, get this - I like old cars. That's why I drive a P6 (and P4).
Would I convert a P6? No, because a 1970's pickup or van would make the job a lot easier and is better designed to carry the weight of the batteries.
My commute is 13 miles each way on A roads, much of which has a 50mph speed limit. That's all I'd use an electric vehicle for. It would not be my only vehicle, it would just take the heat off the classics for 3 or 4 days a week. I can't be the only person with similarly specific requirements.
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I guess for shorter journeys of the kind you describe, a conversion would make sense, and an a35 or Morris Minor electric van would be very interesting, and very cool. In the broader picture though, although cutting local pollution, the power to charge electric vehicles is at the moment most likely to come from fossil or nuclear fuel, both of which create harmful by-products. If you do decide to do a conversion I’d be very interested to know how you get on.
 
PeterZRH said:
How is "the city" defined? Quite a few high-end classics owned by the wealthy in central London. Would residency grant exception? In Germany cities are restricted but historical vehicles (H-plate or foreign equivalent) are exempted. Presumably because their numbers and frequency of use mean they aren't a problem in the scheme of things. I'm all for restriction but in the UK you do fear some half-arsed, ill-thought-out legislation which is a "catch-all".

Part of the problem is many of the offending vehicles are so durable. I had a 1998 Audi A4 diesel which had nearly 300,000km on the clock. I have no doubt it could do another 100,000 with basic maintenance. What is needed is targeted scrappage schemes, so trading those in becomes a no brainer.
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The definition of ‘city’ is somewhat arbitrary, much like the thinking behind the regulations. I don’t think the mayor is a car guy...
 
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