HIF6 2200TC Float needle valves

pat180269

Active Member
Set off for Bowes show yesterday in Durham. I have done plenty to the car over the winter and to be honest I was rushing to get it ready in time. The last thing I did was rebuild the carbs, fitted the lot; shafts, bushes, throttle discs etc.

Rebuilt the rear carb first and all went well. Came to do the front carb and the needle valve supplied was different to the one fitted ( see photo). Both carbs originally had the lower type needle valve fitted; it has a spring loaded pin on the left, I was supplied with one bottom and one top. Also I noticed that the hole in the seat was bigger than the one taken out. I assumed the parts where supplied incorrectly and fitted the new seat with one of the old needle valves. Nothing in the manual to the contrary.

Over the preceding week to the Bowes show I refitted, balanced and tuned the carbs. The car was running really well; I went for a couple of short runs and everything was fine.

Come the morning of the show set off on the M60 did about 7 miles and turned off onto the M61 heading north towards the M6 car running very well indeed. As I decelerated to negotiate the curved slip road there was a strong smell of petrol so I pulled over. Opened the bonnet and fuel was fizzing on the exhaust down pipe; Harvey you are quite correct it doesn't just burst into flames! However when I posted about this last week I didn't expect to have the problem myself so soon!

By this time Happy Days had answered my distress call and had pulled onto the slip road behind me. We talked about it and decided to tap the carb to try and free it off which to my amazement worked. We carried on probably about another 10-15 miles close to Preston. Again slowing down to negotiate a tight bend the petrol smell returned. This time it was impossible tap free so I gave up and had the car recovered.

I contacted the supplier who kept talking about V8's but eventually we got the correct part numbers; turns out I had the right kits. So he went off to find out whether the kits had been made up incorrectly and said that the two carbs should have different needle valves fitted. They are saying front carb has the brass triangular needle valve with large seat and the rear carb has the square one with spring loaded pin and small seat.

Can anyone confirm if the needles and seats are different in the front and rear carbs ? As I said mine had smaller seats and the same needle valve fitted in both.

Also why would the carb only flood when decelerating after a fast run ?

cheers

pat
 

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Demetris said:
The viton tipped needle superseded the brass tipped one.
That's all.

The supplier is saying they are supposed to be different so i don't think this is the issue here.
 
pat180269 said:
The supplier is saying they are supposed to be different so i don't think this is the issue here.

I've never heard of that, and I've had a quick squint in the WM and there's absolutely no mention of it, or warnings that there are two different types which are required to be fitted as one of each to specific carbs.
 
Pat - gutted for you - sorry to see you broken down on the motorway. I was going too fast anyway and the brakes are awful on that blue car.

I realised I was nothing but a hazard who knows nothing about 4-pot cars so I booted it and turned off the next junction to let Mick know - he was already with you.

Over Hulton (A6 / M61 Link Road) by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Forton Services, M6 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

He may know something about carburettors but he is clueless when it comes to iconic landmarks like Forton Services.
 
Hi Harvey

Yes I couldn't find anything in the WM or haynes. However the 2200 are a bit of an afterthought in the manuals and differences are not always covered fully or correctly.

I don't have any confidence in the supplier information as the throttle discs they supplied didn't even fit in the shafts! The slots in the shafts have all been made wrong. When I told them and they realised all their stock was wrong they just said we don't have any, you'll have to try to order some from someone else who might have parts from an earlier batch. I had to machine them out myself to fit.

pat
 
pat180269 said:
I don't have any confidence in the supplier information as the throttle discs they supplied didn't even fit in the shafts!

I think that's your answer then. That says it all really.
 
Assuming they should both be the same..

I have fitted one oversized seat with old needle valve to the front flooding carb. I checked it shut off by blowing into the petrol inlet and lifting the float before assembly and it only seems to flood when backing off on fast runs.

Is my best coarse of action to refit the original seat in the front carb ?

How is the fuel supplied to the rear carb ? Does it go into the front carb bowl through needle valve then out ( in series ) to rear or does it bypass the front carb and go direct to the rear bowl ( in parallel) ?
 
Hi Chris

I realise you didn't drive past on purpose. The location of the car meant you would be past before realising.

ethelred said:
He may know something about carburettors but he is clueless when it comes to iconic landmarks like Forton Services.

Spoke to Mick last night and he made me laugh. I asked what the museum was like at Bowes to which he replied " Its full of old sh*t ".

A classic line.
 
pat180269 said:
Demetris said:
The viton tipped needle superseded the brass tipped one.
That's all.

The supplier is saying they are supposed to be different so i don't think this is the issue here.

It isn't rocket science, and there is absolutely no reason to make them different, let alone made by different materials!
It's common sence really...
However, it is important that the needle size is the correct one for the seat.
You can have a look here http://sucarb.co.uk/carbspec/carburettor/essentials/id/2218/ if you think that it will help you. Check the info for front and rear carbs, AUD632F and AUD632R respectively.

The carbs are connected in parallel, they both fill up at the same time.
 
pat180269 said:
I don't have any confidence in the supplier information as the throttle discs they supplied didn't even fit in the shafts! The slots in the shafts have all been made wrong
I know exactly the supplier you mean. Had the same problem! The shafts are the right length and seated and threaded properly. But the slots are only about 1-1/4" long!
I've since started using Southern or Gower Lee.... if that helps others with the process of deduction.... :roll:
 
pat180269 said:
Hi demetris, that is the supplier who says they are different.

OK, i see...

Not according to their website though. The kit is the WZX1102. :?

Sometimes i also make mistakes in my work, but i find it easier to accept them straight away and solve the problem.
Talking nonsence to cover the mistakes creates still bigger problems...
 
Demetris said:
Sometimes i also make mistakes in my work, but i find it easier to accept them straight away and solve the problem.
Talking nonsence to cover the mistakes creates still bigger problems...

Too right. Hold your hands up and put things right. The only person who never makes a mistake is the person that never does anything.
 
The plot thickens ....

I have been supplied with 1 x CSK 83 "Service kit for a single HIF6 carb" - Suitable for Morris Marina/Ital Princess & Rover applications.





also 1 x CSK 17 "Service kit for a single HIF6 carb" - Suitable for Austin America Rover & Volvo applications.

Clearly they do have different needle valves in the photos so the kits are correct. They are saying front carb has CSK 17 and rear CSK 83; CSK 17 has different needle valve and larger seat.

So I suppose the question is should I have 2 x CSK 83 ?
 

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Pat, the only parts within these kits that are handed and should be different are the jets. Hence the different part numbers of the kits.
All the other stuff should be the same between the two carbs.
The only other consumable that are indeed handed are the floats.
The supplier just happened to use an aluminum needle in the first photo and a brass in the second. IMHO it doesn't mean anything. As long as they have the same size and fit to similar seats, you should be fine.
 
Finally they have admitted that the parts are wrong; the needle valves should be the same in each kit as Demetris pointed out the only difference is the jets are handed. The correct needle valves have a spring loaded pin which prevents the needle from being unseated by engine vibration.

What is so annoying is I had to continually insist that the parts where wrong before they'd bother to check. I spoke to a guy yesterday who told me complete and utter nonsense. Given this and the other problems I've had with their parts not to mention the fact my car broke down, I won't be using them again.
 
That's a shame.
For a few times that i have used them in the past, their service was decent.
Now it seems that they have a few ready - wrong packed kits that they just put in the post without checking...
 
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