LED headlight conversion

#1
Recently I bought LED bulbs to replace all light on my 3500S. Everything went fine and all side, tail , stoplight replaced without any trouble and all look fien and brighter than the old filament bulbs.
Fitting the head light bulbs seems more of a problem, a each bulb has an "electronics module" that goes between the bulb and the 3 pin power connector. There is no room inside the headlight shell for this module. Has anyone done this conversion?? Any suggestions as the how to fit the module in?

MY initial thought were to cut a hole in the back of the headlight shell to allow the connector from the module to pass through, and then cut the power connector from th shell and make the connection behind the shell. Is there a better way? Like removing the shell to make room for the module?
Instruction with the LED's mentioned that the module should be fixed in a dry place, which seems logical.

I have also seen suggestions that the 'beam pattern' of these LEDs is incorrect and could be an MOT failure, but I am now MOT exempt ,so I presume that if I am happy with the beam pattern, then that is OK. My recent driving experience is that many vehicles with super-bright headlights appear to have the wrong beam pattern.
 

sdibbers

Well-Known Member
#3
You mentioned replacing all bulbs with LEDs. I would have someone follow you and check visibility. I used some well respected lamps to replace the tail/brake light bulb. My wife mentioned that when following the difference between brake and taillight wasn't very obvious and that it was much more directional (even with the fresnel lens built into the bulbs). I swapped back to incandescent for that reason.
 
#6
Interesting replies. I bought these lights from Classic Car LEDs Ltd which I 'found' from this forum. I sent them a list of the lights on my 3500S I would like to replace with LEDs and bought what they recommended. The only caveat they offered was that stop/tail red light had to be replaced with red LED, which they supplied, and that 'flashers' could not be directly replaced with LED because of different current rating from tungsten bulbs.
Classic Car LEDs gave the impression of being a reputable firm, and I would like to hear their reaction to the comments on the MOT failure of their headlight LEDS.
I have also seen HID lights advertised for P6 and I remember seeing hem fitted to another make on that TV classic car program.
So do we have companies selling something that is, according to this forum, illegal?
What would be their legal position if a classic owner was prosecuted for following their recommendation?
How would Classic Car Led react to individuals on this forum suggesting that they are selling an illegal product?
 

PeterZRH

Well-Known Member
#7
The legality of selling and using is often different. The difference being what they claim for purpose. I'm betting if you read the small-print on either the vendor's website or the packaging the product comes in there is some sort of disclaimer. Whether or not that is adequate and stands against "fit for purpose" rules, I guess would need to be tested in court.

You can assume insurers work on the basis on not wanting to pay out for any reason even if it isn't contributory to any event. It's pretty much inconceivable anyone would be "prosecuted" as such for fitting them, you'll likely just get a vehicle rectification notice and a fixed penalty.

Personally I wouldn't bother unless the law is clear. Halogen conversions are legal and you can put high output bulbs like the Philips extreme vision in them, so there is no real functional argument for LEDs over and above some notion of protecting your wiring and personal preference.
 

PeterZRH

Well-Known Member
#8
Personally, I'm fully supportive of banning these things. Unless you can guarantee these perform properly in you vehicle, then you put me at risk of being dazzled.
 
#10
Personally, I'm fully supportive of banning these things. Unless you can guarantee these perform properly in you vehicle, then you put me at risk of being dazzled.
Being a professional night driver l have to agree. Even OEM lighting has got stupidly bright these days (you should see the hi-line main beam on the latest Scania's) & owner-fitted lighting which is just bought & fitted by eye so the driver can see for two miles up the road is an all too frequent PITA. Even the emergency service workers agree that their blues are often simply too bright for purpose. You have to look away when they pass or lose your night vision for half a minute.

Not having a go here of course. You'll naturally be a responsible motorist, being a Rover owner. ;)
 
#11
The high wattage bulbs for halogen lamps technically are sold "for off-road use only" and are not approved for public roads.

Yours
Vern
I think you are refering to Peter's mention of high output bulbs, quite different ti high high WATTAGE. As you are for "off road use". High output are the same wattage, but (claim) more light.
 
#15
Many people claiming great knowledge, and combining to make confusing replies. I have mailed the supplier to ask for their comments.
As for "type approval" of lighting and other conversions; where does it leave the many changes that P6 owners have made over the years?
5 Speed gearboxes?
Fuel injection, ex SD1 or more recent offerings; P6 Owners club mag ran a series on 'megasquirt/ megajolt' conversion last year, with no mention of non-type approval, though I do not recall Rover offering such an option.
Different carbs. different cam-shafts?
Back top lights:-
I guess that the only lighting Rover offered on new P6 was Lucas sealed beam main/dip and main beam light each side, with domed glass.
A few years back these became 'diffificult' to find, (Halfords did not list them any longer), so I bought a pair of QI main/did light at an auto jumble. I think these were ex-jaguar, which I fitted and went through several MOT's without comment.
There was no Classic Rover Forum t keep me right then.
Eventually car lighting moved on and these QI lights could no longer compete against the new Hi Intensity lights that most SUVs seemed to be using, so I looked for an alternative.
I found that I could buy a conversion to HID lights, as shown on "Wheeler Dealers" or the LED conversion I have.
I think that Halfords and others now offer high output QI bulbs I could fit directly into my existing, and possibly illegal QI lights, but having bought LED I would prefer to go with those, even at the risk of prosecution, which this forum tells me should have happened years ago when I fitted jag QI lights.
Finally, I have fitted a Facet electric fuel pump a type that was never offered on P6's new. The SU electric fuel pump that was an option is I believe NLA, and I have never heard for such a retrofit conversion. Another prosecution in th post a it has passed numerous MOT's
 

cobraboy

Well-Known Member
#16
The law is clearly set out here..... Aftermarket HID Headlamps
I suspect LED lighting will be covered by the same legislation in due course.

It is not illegal, or necessary to gain type approval to upgrade from Sealed beam to Quartz Iodine, change gearboxes, cams, carbs, fuel pumps, etc etc.
 

Chalky

Active Member
#17
Fit your leds and don’t worry about it. All my bulbs are LEDs (except ign warning light) have been for two years now and passed three mots. Nobody is going to give a monkeys about what bulbs you’ve got in your old car.
 

Chalky

Active Member
#19
They draw much less power so good for old wiring and the headlights pull less through the fuse box so less chance of a meltdown.
 

PeterZRH

Well-Known Member
#20
Well, you made your decision to use them, it seems pointless to complain when the situation is explained to you and it is not to your liking. Technically all those modifications you discuss will potentially invalidate your insurance unless you declare them. Most insurers actually don't care but you leave yourself open if you don't. It's prudent to ask your insurer to list them on the policy to cover all bases. As far as type approval is concerned this usually pertains to the structure of the car and safety equipment. Think about the old MOT. An unintentional "mod" due to to rust can't be within 18" of a structurally significant point. So your lighting does apply but a gearbox might not whereas a modified cross-member to hold that gearbox might. I looked into fuel injection where I live (not the UK) and they actually don't care because it's a mod that actually improve emissions. What they do care about is fitting external, high-pressure fuel lines that previously weren't there. It's complicated but there's no point in comparing apples to oranges, the point is it definitely DOES apply to what you are doing.

Personally, until you can drive in to a government centre and get a certificate covering beam and brightness, these things are just a menace to other road users. You've done it and most likely you won't get any issues for it.
 
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