My 2000TC 'Minstrel' needs a lot of TLC..

clive P62 said:
Hi Stephen.
Sorry to put a downer on it but when these elbow sections rust like that it will be the tip of the iceberg once cleaned up by blasting there will be nothing left.
They are common for failing big time due to corrosion.
I think you will be better off finding a better one for safety sake seeing how much work you have done so far.
Regards
Clive.
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That isn't an elbow.That's the hub that holds the wheel. I am going to give the whole DeDion system a good clean up and look over during the week. Like yourself, someone else has said similar. I always act on any sound information you guys give me. Thanks, Clive.
 
Unfortunately that is one of the DeDion elbows, the rear hubs bolt through the elbow castings. That is in very poor condition and I wouldn't wish anyone to be driving around with that supporting the rear of their car. There have been fatalities involving this failure point so should be taken very seriously.
As Clive said, just replace it at this stage.
Jim
 
This is where they go, but by then you've lost control and swerved across the road:
p6_elbow_1.jpg


p6_elbow_2.jpg
 
Wow!! Mine isn't as bad as that, but I am still going to change it. Thanks for the pics. Are they hard to remove?
 
It's a fairly involved job but if done systematically there's nothing too difficult about it. The driveshaft is removed first, complete with the wheel hub (do not split it by undoing the large nut in the centre). This means undoing the 4 bolts through the brake disc which can be very tight so will need a long extension. Then the small bolts all round the hub can be a pain - cutting the heads off with a grinder while being careful not to damage the hub itself is the shortcut. You'll do this part of the job if you ever need to replace a driveshaft universal joint so can get quite good at it over a few years of P6 ownership.
After that, decide if you want to rebush or replace the suspension arms. If you do, then take care when releasing the spring. Car up high, trolley jack under the lower arm easing the tension in a controlled manner.
When you put it all back together, you'll struggle to get the 4 bolts back through the brake disc as the whole lot will have spread outwards. There are various ways around this, E.g. starting with longer bolts; or using ratchet straps to haul it back together.

As for the replacement elbow itself, and lower arm if that's also corroded, I'm a fan of galvanising as you can see from my photo. Some folk are not, and claim that the process weakens the steel. It's a debating issue so just keep in mind that there are two schools of thought.
 
Willy Eckerslyke said:
It's a fairly involved job but if done systematically there's nothing too difficult about it. The driveshaft is removed first, complete with the wheel hub (do not split it by undoing the large nut in the centre). This means undoing the 4 bolts through the brake disc which can be very tight so will need a long extension. Then the small bolts all round the hub can be a pain - cutting the heads off with a grinder while being careful not to damage the hub itself is the shortcut. You'll do this part of the job if you ever need to replace a driveshaft universal joint so can get quite good at it over a few years of P6 ownership.
After that, decide if you want to rebush or replace the suspension arms. If you do, then take care when releasing the spring. Car up high, trolley jack under the lower arm easing the tension in a controlled manner.
When you put it all back together, you'll struggle to get the 4 bolts back through the brake disc as the whole lot will have spread outwards. There are various ways around this, E.g. starting with longer bolts; or using ratchet straps to haul it back together.

As for the replacement elbow itself, and lower arm if that's also corroded, I'm a fan of galvanising as you can see from my photo. Some folk are not, and claim that the process weakens the steel. It's a debating issue so just keep in mind that there are two schools of thought.
Click to expand...
I am so glad you showed me the correct way to go. However, I didn't read your post until after I had started to remove the elbow. I started by removing the top top nut and bolt from the upper leading arm from the elbow first then the bottom one. The top one came out dead easy. Cannot say the same for the bottom one to the De Dion Tube. I have managed to undo the nut easily enough. I am having real problems removing the bolt as it is rusted solid in the suspension arm. I have tried hammering it with a nut on the bolt but all that is happening is it just splitting the metal on the trailing arm around the bolt hole (it was badly rusted anyway). I have soaked it in WD40 and will give another go when I come home from work tomorrow. I think I am going to have to grind the head of the bolt off and cut metal around thread and remove the leading arm like that. Must remember to remove the 6 bolts from the sliding joint first. The small bolts on the hub look like they may give some trouble. As you say, it isn't a difficult job to do. I was hoping to have got it all off tonight. I didn't start on it till 4pm after I got home from work. So didn't have a lot of time on it. Any advice is really welcome. Thanks again for your input. :)
 
Don't forget the 6 bolts around the hub and high Tensile ones. Don't be tempted to use stainless.
 
WD40 is not a releasing fluid, it is a water dispersant (that's what the WD stands for). You might have more success with a proper penetrating oil such as Plus Gas (other products are available)
 
I bought some spray yesterday from Halfords called Shock N Unlock. They said it does the same as Plus Gas. I couldn't get any of that anywhere around here in the time I need it.
 
cobraboy said:
For removing rusted fasteners a mix of Acetone and ATF 50:50 in a plant spray bottle is a very effective penetrating medium.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. I got it off in the end. I ground the head off the bolt and prised the elbow off the mount. The other side of the elbow was rotten so that came away from the trailing arm easily. I had to remove the trailing arm to get the bush out as the bush was totally knackered. Gonna look at the nearside at the weekend and hope that's not rusted rotten like the offside.
 
After removing these parts from the offside I removed the lower bush and cleaned up the Trailing Arm and Spring, cleaned up the Drive Shaft and resprayed them. Just got to get the new bush for the Trailing Arm and the replacement De-dion Elbow and they can go back on The Minstrel. I can then start on the nearside. I am hoping that won't be as bad as the offside was!
 
I hate to mention this Stephen, but I would look at replacing that trailing arm. That arm takes a lot of punishment, and really does need to be rust/pitting free.

Just my two pence worth, but then I had one snap once under the spring, made a bit of a crunching noise :eek:

Richard
 
I agree with Richard.
These are pressed steel suspension components so they cannot tolerate anything except light surface rust.
When your rear suspension looked like this:
Stephen Ward said:
Click to expand...

... i wouldn't trust anyone's life on it.
Better safe than sorry as they say.
 
Hi guys.

I haven't been able to do anything much to Minstrel over the past 8 weeks or so since I started work in late August. I work 11 hours a day Mon-Fri and the weekend is taken up by shopping and spending time with my wife. Problem now is not shortage of money. More shortage of time. Lol.

I did manage to take the starter motor off today to replace the brushes. About 6 weeks ago my son, Shane, made me a stainless steel water pipe to replace the original rusty one that runs alongside the rocker box to the heater while he was at sea. When we tried to fit it, it was wrong. He could only go by the dimensions I gave him (which were right according to the original pipe!) instead of taking the original pipe back with him as a template. Anyway we refitted the original back on, refilled the rad, connected the battery, turned the key to start Minstrel and............click! Nothing. Thinking the battery was dead we tried the one off Shane's 1990 Mitzi GTO which was fully charged and...........again, click! First thing I said was starter motor jammed. Bendix is not being thrown. So we took it off. I took it down the workshop, cleaned it up and tried it on a battery prior to refitting it. The motor span slowly, but I put that down to possibly a low battery charge. Put it back on the car and tired again. Still only got a click. As I said we took it off this afternoon and stripped it right down. The brushes are pretty good so they didn't need to be replaced (I had bought some just incase). Then we looked at the bearing on the armature. It felt very gritty, so it was soaked for a while and we had another look at it. Still the same. So it looks like the bearing is possibly knackered. I have rung a rewind company in Lowestoft and they said probably around £50-£60 to have the starter repaired. That is if it doesn't need any major part renewed.
The most annoying thing about it is the fact that prior to taking the exhaust and carb off, the starter motor was working just fine. Shows just how fickle these things can be! I looked on eBay on my phone and the only one I could find was £136.00! Am going to look on my laptop tonight as I get a better and more detailed view on there. I don't know if that starter was used on any other vehicles. Perhaps one of you guys could give me more info on that, please?

Not done anymore to the rear suspension since the last report. I am seriously going to have to find some time before the bad weather and winter sets in to dismantle and check the nearside.

The only other improvement I have done is to buy Minstrel a decent cover for her for the autumn/winter period as I don't have access to a garage where I could store her. I try to spend a few minutes a week uncovering and recovering her so that the cover doesn't start to stick to the paintwork. Although when I bought the cover the description did state it doesn't damage paintwork. Better safe than sorry!

Will update again when I get a chance to do some work to Minstrel. In the meantime, drive safe and stay on the road.....Steve :)
 
Before I begin my update I just want to say a very big thank you to Colin (arthuy) for his help with some vital parts.

Please bear in mind I had started and ran the engine only a couple of days prior to this next statement. About a month or so ago with the help of my son, we refitted the water/heater pipe that runs alongside the rocker casing as the hoses needed renewing. I refilled the water to check for any leaks before I start the engine. Connected the battery......and.......click! Nothing! First thought, dead battery. So my son went over the road (He and is family literally live across the road from us) and got the battery out of his 1990 Mitzi GTO which he had started a bit earlier in the day. Connected it and turned the key.....click! Again nothing! I knew then that the starter was stuck. Tried the usual hammer repair with no result. So took the stater motor off. Took it down the workshop to strip down. First thing I done was to rewire the connector patch lead as the original was pretty burnt out. It was positioned very near (too near in my opinion) to the exhaust downpipe. I reconnected the wire to the starter and tried it on a spare battery. Expecting it to start spinning with some force I clamped it to a workbench first. Touched the wires on the battery terminals. The starter just about turned. Didn't even spin enough to throw the bendix armature! So totally stripped it down. We found that the bearing on the shaft was very stiff and gritty. Rang a couple of local places to inquire about a repair and wish I hadn't. The first don't do starter repairs and the other place was really shitty on the phone and didn't seem interested in my business. I got on the forum and asked Colin if he knew of anyone that possibly had one for sale. He said he had one and would dig it out for me. Colin has been a big help to me with parts. He is helping me out with the o/s elbow as well.

I have finally managed to find a bit of time to dismantle the n/s rear suspension. Took the De-dion tube off first then undone the top support arm bolt and then the trailing arm bolt under the car. The bolts undone really well and I thought 'this is going well....!' So I then started to undo the elbow/trailing arm bolt. I thought 'I'm not looking forward this' after the trouble I had with the offside. Talk about surprised.....the bolt undone straight away with the breaker bar. The bolt came out of the bush pretty easily as well! Took the elbow and trailing arm off. Had a quick scan off both parts for corrosion and was surprised not to find anything nasty. Took the parts down to my workshop and cleaned the elbow up with a wire wheel in my drill. Totally shocked to find no holes or deep corrosion anywhere on the elbow at all!! (see photo's) I think it is a bit of an understatement to say I was over the moon because this had saved me money that is needed elsewhere on The Minstrel. The following photos show how good the n/s elbow is for it's age:





All being well I should have the o/s elbow and starter motor in a few days. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I can get time (and good weather) to get the rear back together and the starter motor reconnected.

The next job with be renovating the brakes. The rear pads all look good. But because the braking system hasn't been used much in the last 2 or 3 years it have pretty much seized up and need to stripped down and cleaned. The front brakes possibly need new seals for both slave and master cylinders.

That will just about leave the job of rewiring the lights, etc. If I rewire it, I can be certain there are no hidden burnt out wires anywhere.

Doesn't sound a lot when you read it quickly. Lol.

Thanks a lot to all the guys who have helped me out with either information or parts or both!

Next update will probably be in a couple of months. That being said. let me be the first to wish everybody a Happy Xmas! :) :) :)
 
Hopefully the starter Colin supplied will be ok, but for future reference, a good place to go for starter, or any other electrical work, is Nacton Auto Electric, of Ipswich, they overhauled my starter in a day and charged £42.
 
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