Raspberry Pi

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.... from the colour thread....

Farnell have taken my order for the next batch, they're saying I'll get it in may.

I was all excited about the philosophy of the device, get kids programming etc. Exactly like I did starting on a TRS80, through to the BBC B (still my favourite computer) before moving on to PC's when they finally became better than a BBC. Perfect for my 14 year old. But I'm a little let down really, in that it's too slick, basically just a cheap PC, and you're basically running a full OS (although I'll take a look at riscos). From what I've seen the kids programming aspect is a bit point and click wysiwyg stuff, so not quite teaching them to fully grasp logic and loop constructs etc.

I'll have to pull out the pic gear and teach my son how to program in assembler, addressing the hardware directly, like real programmers do !

However based on what I've seen, I still expect to probably buy more than one of the pi, they're so cheap and perfect for embedding into tv's, cars, etc.. Too good to miss really. They even appear to have some general io, not up to the numerous ports the beeb had but it's something I guess.
 
That's why I've not got too excited about them. To get kids programming you'd have to have an immediately available native programming language. Considering the advent of cpus that run Java natively that's what I'd be looking for perhaps with speccy +3 style start menu.

Can't say I got on too well with BBC machines. Machine that got me programming was the commodore +4 with its built in machine code monitor and assembler.

Of course riscos still has BBC basic (in v4 at least) so you might feel quite at home there.
 
Funny, I don't remember the +4, just scanned through the wikipedia entry, but it still doesn't ring any bells.

I too was a expecting to turn it on, and be able to code there and then, just like we used to do.

From the videos I've seen, most people appear to be playing Quake 3, browsing the web or watching hi-def movies on them, that's not teaching the kids anything they didn't already know.

They will however be great for connecting to your bedroom TV to convert to a smart type setup, with proper apps rather than the slightly duff stuff that comes on the smart tv's, and probably for less than the premium you pay for the smart version of the tv.
 
Not sure how up to date the Wiki entry for Raspberry Pi is but it does mention Python.
The Raspberry Pi Foundation plans to support Fedora Linux as the initial system software package/distribution, with support for Debian and ArchLinux as well. [11] Also planned are tools for supporting Python as the main programming language, [12] [13] with support for BBC BASIC,[14] (As "Brandy Basic", the BBC BASIC clone)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi

I heard one of the Rasberry Pi Foundation guys on the radio recently and he was saying that he hoped that older school engineers like us would develop app's learning tools, educational material etc. that would kick start interest for youngsters. My guess is that the key would be to provide young folk with the ability to develop Apps they can then use on their Smart Phone is maybe key? At least if they can buy a Rasberry gadget for browsing and accessing video/music for £20-£30 with pocket money that's a start, as it shall maybe ensure lots of youngester own one and won't be too scared to expirement with it?

I was personally keen to have another crack at doing some noddy programmes on a more modern platform. Despite having worked in electronics for 20 years, it has mostly been hardware, OSs, datacomms and installation design that has taken up my time (what they call a Systems Engineer nowadays :) ). Seem to spend most of my time producing/reading doc's or sending/receiving e-mail these days :( .

The only programming I have ever did professionally was years ago in machine code (you were spoiled with Assembly Language Richard :D ). That was just some noddy diagnostics for the Digital pdp 11/70s that I worked on for years. They had "piano" keys on the front that allowed to to set addresses/instructions and input data in binary form - if you were sad enough! If you wanted to spoil yourself, you could work in Otal (none of that Hex nonsense). I can still remember some of the Octal boot addreesses (must be burnt into my ROM).

I wonder if the next few years will turn out to be an interesting time for computers and OSs with some real competition between Wndows & Linux. Also, if very much lower cost CPUs running Linux and Android flood the market in the form of cheap Phones, Tablets, Notebooks, Raspberries etc. what is the future for the current Intel/AMD based desktop PC or laptop? I watch my kids and although they use the computer at home, they probably use phones, Nintendos, Wiis, X-Boxes and Tablets etc. etc. far more than a conventional PC. What's going to happened in developing countries like China where ever more fiercely competing manufacturers are faced with the choice of a £100 Intel CPU or a £10 ARM CPU?

PS - was it the Commodore 64 you were on about Rich?
 
The 64 was probably the more popular machine, but looks like the +4 came next, looking at the wikipedia entry it looked like a decent machine.

Personally I have little time for smart phones, tablets etc, I'm either programming or doing fairly heavy office type tasks, and none of these devices are much use, even a laptop causes a fairly significant drop in productivity. There's simply no substitute for big screens, keyboards and mice for real work.

In the home however I can see the PC as we know it dying, unless some new killer-app comes out that requires one. Smart TV's and tablets can handle the sofa-browsing / facebook culture (although I'd still rather use a laptop), and the consoles handle the games ok.

Oh, except for the educational market, where kids need one to learn how to use Office etc....

Interestingly, although we have consoles etc, my youngest spends most of his time on the PC, the games he plays are better on the PC and again it's easier for him to do more all at once when you've got a big screen and keyboard etc, I've seen him playing games watching youtube vids, chatting on msn and skype all at the same time ! I suppose he's leaning a bit more towards the geek end of the spectrum (although nothing like I was), and the geeks will always use a PC, there's not enough room for "messing" with any other device.

I agree about encouraging the kids to develop apps on these devices, one big issue though is the apple platform, annoyingly the only way to develop native iphone/pod/pad apps is on a mac, there is no straight forward way to do that under windows / linux, plus you've got to jump through apples publishing hoops to actually release them. This is something that needs to be addressed, somebody should be looking at the monopoly rules there, if Microsoft tried that they'd be in court and fined before the day was out ! We should certainly be pushing the Android platform over the Apple one.
 
I had a +4 with an external 5 1/4 " disc drive and a dot matrix printer that couldn't do descenders, seem to remember buying it as a complete package from a retail chain that is now defunct, can't remember the name. I changed it for a BBC Master then an Acorn A3000 with an Oak solutions Worra winnie, then a Strong Arm RiscPc which I still have and use occasionally, then various versions of Mac. I have a Raspberry on order, intend to run Risc OS on it cos I can still remember the coding!!
 
I never did the Archimedes, My B was fully maxed out with all the add on's, had to put it in a big box with seperate keyboard to get it all in, I had the Master 512 board as well which was a 80186 processor and ran DOS, and lots of PC software, from there I went to PC's when the 486 came out.

Working on them all day, building, programming and fixing them, I see computers a bit like a mechanic sees cars, ask a mechanic what car to buy and they generally say they're all cr*p !
 
only experience with acorns (except for school) was starting at my current workplace where everthing used to be based on risc PCs.
 
It is 3.14159
I remember when I was at school the maths teacher selling a booklet each month called Mathematical Pie and across the top of each page was printed the decimal places of the value of pi. This had been going on for some years and had reached many thousandths of decimal places when some scholar had spotted an error early on and they had to start again!
 
When I was at school 22/7 (3.14....) was a good enough approximation of Pi for most calculations and using fractions was sometimes easier than decimal.
 
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