Removed aftermarket air con, Think I broke something

mick88

New Member
Hello all,
First time posting so be gentle.
I've had my 75 3500 for about 12 months now and have started to remove the aftermarket air con out of an old Holden from it.
The only problem is, now she won't start. It still turns over, but won't fire.
Most of the yanking and pulling came from the side where the ignition coil, fuel filter and pump, and dizzy sits so I may have knocked something loose there but it all seems fine to my extremely novice eyes (first time under the hood of a car).

What I'm thinking is that I've accidentally removed a wire for the electric fuel pump that was for some reason attached to the air con components (filter or some sort of temperature control unit under the hood). This wire was soldered to the fuse box with the ignition components, but I thought it was just for the ac.

I know it's a long shot but any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mick
 
If the unit is an old Unicla one or similar, like the aftermarket ones they stuck on holden's in the '70s, and the glove boxes have been shortened to fit it in, then have a look at the compressor if it is an upright york type unit on what is obviously a specially made bracket. then it is probably one of the NZ built cars which came with these units. Which means you will have the standard Facet electric pump above the rear axle together with the factory piping and reserve tap arrangement. They make a ticking sound when pumping and you should be able to hear it when you turn the ignition on. It will start fairly fast then slow down as the pressure builds but won't stop altogether. The wiring for these is part of the harness and not part of the under dash unit wiring. The underdash unit should have a thick main wire in with an inline fuse. There will be other wire that probably heads out the same hole as the hoses and follows them along to a pressure switch in the little tank next to the coil then it will go to the compressor between the unit and the pulley. That is the compressor clutch wire. there will also be at least one and possibly more earth wires which go to various earth points and a few others which are basically just internal wiring of the unit but on the outside. none of that wiring goes near the ignition, except maybe the fused wire but it normally comes of the old heater motor wire. So in theory the car should still run.

After checking the fuel pump is working and you have fuel in the tank, check to see you have a spark and electrical connection at the coil and distributor. There should be one or two normal width wires going into the coil and one coming out which goes across to the side of the distributor on the engine. There is also the thick wire that comes out of the middle of the coil and goes into the centre of the distributor. Simple test is to take the thick wire out of the distributor middle and hold it about 1 cm away from the distributor body. Get someone to turn the engine over and there should be a spark. Don't do this if you have a pacemaker or dicky heart coz you can give yourself a shock. use gloves and keep all parts of your body away from the car.

That should be enough for tonight.

ps there is a wiring diagram in the back of the operators manual for the car. I'm pretty sure it won't have the air con in it so you could use it to check what that wire is for if not air con.
 
This is fantastic. I will definitely check it out tomorrow after work, but it looks like you've described it perfectly.
Will post updates.
 
**First Update**
Thanks to Mike, I just went out and checked the above mentioned possible problems.
I couldn't hear the ticking sound when turning the ignition, so the fuel pump may be the issue.
I checked to see if I had connection to the coil and did, so that was a win.

Attached are a couple of photos I just took to provide an idea of what it looks like in there. The three loose wires seem to all be going to the air con, there was one more that, as Mike described, came from the same hole as the hoses and went to the now removed air con component (I believe).
The second is how the fuel pump is wired under the hood. It looks like a bit of a rough job to me with a random fuse sitting there, but I don't know any better.
Finally I just snapped one of the fuel filter, it looks to be wet in there, but not sure if it should fill more if the pump is working?
All in all I'm having a lot of fun with this problem solving exercise, I think I might have caught an itch for it now!
Thanks again to anyone who replies
Images:
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
 
Your right it is a rough job...That is a Sanden compressor or a copy of one. So I'd guess the compressor died and it was replaced with the Sanden unit. That fuel filter is A) due for replacement and B) empty so I think you are right it is a fuel issue. In non-air con cars the fuel pump is mechanical and sits down the side of the housing the distributor and water pump are on. Hidden behind where your compressor is. If it has been changed to an electric one then it could be anywhere along the fuel line between carb and tank hopefully that filter is between the pump and the carby ( ie. pressure side of pump). However that engine stabiliser bar is the NZ fixture so i'd think the pump is indeed under the tank and above the back axle. They can stop for a number of reasons none of which can be fixed without getting under the car...Options are: the built in filter is blocked up, the internal points are welded shut or burned out, other wiring issues particularly a bad earth connection (check both wire to clip and clip to body) and the fuel tap (which is like a lawn mower one on the inlet to the pump) has managed to shut itself off. Given there is no ticking I'd be looking at the electrical ones. You can buy new replacement pumps from SU midel in Sydney or buy the electronic block shaped ones and fit right angle fittings on it to thet the pipes in the right spot. One more possibility is the reserve tap is stuck half way, shutting off supply.

I can't see what that relay is for , it seems a bit pointless as all the wires bar an earth go back up the tube. On the front of the car there are three wires one of which goes to the compressor clutch. I presume the other two go to driving or fog lights? really need some wider angle shots to figure it out...
 
Afternoon Mike,

After getting under the car just now, the facet electric pump is sitting there near the rear axle, another thing checked off that you've been spot on about.

After checking the wiring some more, I've noticed that one running along with fuel pump randomly pops out and isn't connected to anything (attached in pictures)

The three loose wires seem to all be from the air con, one of which goes to the compressor unit, the other two going down to the fan I believe.

Hopefully the following pictures provide some clarity, as it is all a bit of a mess in there to me.

If all else fails, it wouldn't hurt to look at a new filter and pump in the near future.

Thanks again,

Mick

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
 
Those loose wires and the ones in the spagetti tubing aren't factory, Fusebox normally sits on top of the glove box not at the side like that one. Unfortunately neither my car manual nor my workshop manual has the pick up point for the electric pump in it, it just dissapears off the page... The positive wire is white without a tracer colour and the earth is supposedly black but there is an earth strap that goes around the cotton real pump mount from pump screw to body screw. It is flat braid from memory. it is important that it is there and well connected as it helps stop sparks in the fuel lines! As i mentioned yesterday there is a fuel tap on the inlet side of the pump. The knurled end should be pulled out (about 7mm). It is useful if you have to take the pump off as you don't have to drain the tank..After checking the tap and that the reserve tap is pulled out(IE. the lever is at its shortest at the actual tap) check the fuel pump wire to ensure you have current when the ign is on at the pump end. If you don't then earth it on something other than the fuel lines and return to under the dash where you need to connect a light to a car power source that is off (best spot is the plug in the floor where the dipper switch goes on old holdens), Use it to test all the white wires (or whatever colour the one under the car is) till you find the other end of the one under the car.

Finally, one end of the pump comes off if it the cylindrical one and ther is a mesh filter in it. The other has a set of points which may well need cleaning and filing to get them to work again.

Those other wires you will need to manually follow them through. one end will be the power source, the other the thing they power.

Now my newly chromed rear brake cylinders are shining at me to go and put them all together....
 
I thought of a bettwr procedure overnight.... Use a jumper wire from the positive terminal of the battery to the pump to see if it works. If it does the issue is your wire if it doesn't check the earths first then assume it's the pump.
 
Thanks Mike that's a great idea, I'll definitely check it out over the weekend.
After doing a bit of research and looking at the interiors fitted with air conditioning I can say that this wasn't the original fitted to the car. The unit went from the start of the passenger side dash and cut off at the centre console. Also, the passenger glovebox was removed to fit the unit inside.
Wasn't happy with how it looked, hence why I'm removing it.
For a spur of the moment purchase however, I'm really starting to enjoy working on it.
Thanks again.
 
**Another Update**
Went away for the long weekend and came back over my lunch break to check some of the issues again.

I've followed the wires that came from the relay to the fuel pump. One isn't attached to anything and just comes out to nothing, another goes to the facet pump under the rear axle, and the final one goes to the alternator. Images attached.

I'm not sure if I've accidentally removed a wire that goes to an oil pressure shut off or another form of safety switch, or whether the relay was used for the air con as well.

Don't have a jumper wire to test the fuel pump, and don't want to electrocute myself trying with the leads.

P6 facet fuel pump plus the actual pump Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
 
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that isn't a standard setup, nor is it a NZ setup. The pump will be very noisy mounted solidly to the floor like that. Normally there are three pipes coming from the fuel tank fitting. The two that are there are the fuel return line and what should be the main fuel pipe connected to the Reserve connection. You could connect the wire from the alternator to the wire to the pump. The pump should work then but you wont be able to turn it off. Hence the relay. If it does work, then connect the pump wire to one of the Ign circuit connections in the dash so it turns on when the ign is on.
 
Good evening Mike,
Yes, I'm noticing things now that suggest one of the previous owners did some bush mechanic style modifications under the hood.
I was just thinking about trying to solder the fuel pump wire to the ignition, or somewhere within the fuse box as a spot fix for now so I can move the car. Then look at a safer shut off switch once the air con is completely out, and the engine bay properly decreased and cleaned up.

Also, with the fuel pump, do I need facet bushes to quiet the pump, or will any do??

Thanks again for all the help, I was definitely lost before I discovered this forum.

Mick
 
Hi Mick,
When I have fitted these pumps as an extra I mounted them on a rubber strap as used to mount the rear silencer on our p6s .
Clive.
 
**Final Update**

After testing the fuel pump wire with the ignition it finally started, so that's now soldered in and looks and sounds fine. I will look at cleaning it up over the weekend to make it a bit nicer.

Thanks Clive I will definitely have a look at that over the weekend when I try and clean everything up a bit.
 
the other cheap solution for bushes is to use a 1" length of radiator hose. You cut a hole in th side with a wad punch big enough to put a bolt through to secure it to the pump but beofr doing that put a screwdriver through the hole and screw it into place, then bolt the pump on. do run an earth line from the pump foot to the body though. You can buy the cotton real type bushes from an Actrol air conditioning suppliers shop If you want it to look all professional. Glad it is going again!
P.S. do you want that air con pump?
 
Morning Mike,
Another good idea. We have a small auto shop just up the road that I'm going to check out today.
The whole system (bar a couple of the pulleys for the belt which are stuck on pretty tight) was removed yesterday. What a pig of a job. I was a little busy basking in my own self satisfaction that the car felt lighter and a bit quieter, to realise I forgot to reattach the radiator hose for my test drive!
So coolant and degreaser is on the shopping list today.
No I won't be keeping the pump, not sure if I ever want to look at one again after yesterday.

Attached is what it's looking like, not sure of the condition, as removing it was definitely not a delicate process. Yours if you want it

I've also attached a couple pictures of the original unit I found in the car folder I got when I bought it. I think it looked pretty damn ugly, hence why all of this started.

Thanks,

Mick
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
 
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