Rover P6 4.6 V8 Road/Race car.
- Thread starter RoverAlex
- Start date
RoverAlex
Active Member
How do I go about finding this Steve chap? £120 sounds like my sort of pricing
Thank you I am glad you share my sentiment.
RoverAlex
Active Member
I've not got anything other than the standard hooks - this should be sufficient? If I was getting more serious about it I'd perhaps come up with something beefier and certainly more accessible on the front - but I am only dabbling in track days now and then and Auto Solo/Test events so I don't really see a need.
How do I go about finding this Steve chap? £120 sounds like my sort of pricing
Hi Alex, try here: info@torsionperformance.com
He's done a few now. No joking in terms of bang per buck, this really is the first thing to change.
RoverAlex
Active Member
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
MX5 is certainly more suited in terms of handling. But I'd say the P6 is far more visibly appealing and possibly more entertaining to watch
Absolutely no question.
RoverAlex
Active Member
cobraboy
Well-Known Member
What I mean is, the 25mm bar will good for hurling the car around cones and on track, they offer 24mm and thinner, which would be a waste of time for you.
There is no harshness to the 25mm bar at all.
RoverAlex
Active Member
RoverAlex
Active Member
Took the P6 with the Rover P6 Club to Stoneleigh the other weekend. Evelina had her first time out in the P6. Fell asleep almost straight away and enjoyed the day
Earlier that week it had developed a fault with the engine - getting hot very quickly and white smoke. Didn't want to let the stand down so arrived at the show in typical style having to turn the engine off in the queue and then push the car in. Ah well!
So after getting home I started pondering what it could be. December 2015 I had an issue with exhaust gases in the coolant so took heads off and they were no where near flat...so got them skimmed, engine put back together and it's been great. Or so I thought!
Now within a few minutes of driving the temperature goes up to about 3/4 on the gauge and normally (but not always) I get white smoke/steam - but as long as I am moving the temperature will com right back down again. If I was to sit in traffic it would certainly get hot quick. Took it to the local garage and yep it's pressuring within seconds and gases in the coolant. No knocking and performance seems fine.
It would be easy to think it's a cooling problem but I am pretty certain I can rule that out - yes that would make the temperature soar...but it wouldn't get gases in my coolant. And you'd have thought that it wouldn't simply cool down again.
Porous block (liner) seems to be the main suggestion and I can understand that conclusion. BUT...what I do not understand is that surely if this was the case, I wouldn't be able to drive through it the car cools down - it would simply get worse and worse? Again if someone wants to come up on a theory on that it would be appreciated! Perhaps that aluminium and steel heats and contracts at different rates and therefore you can't make plain assumptions of when things should happen? Hmm.
So now I have taken the heads off. Left hand bank breach between pots 2 and 3 on the exhaust side. Head was skimmed so maybe the block isn't flat? But that wouldn't get exhaust gases in my coolant. Nope - that is just a side issue. Maybe it is the regular issue of poor sealing with these 4.6 blocks and lack of contact area for the gasket.
You can see the clean plug and the valve is darker than the others - again - this isn't the issue in my opinion.
The inlet manifold is heavily pitted all four corners between water ways and you can see where the water has been travelling by the marks on the inlet. But that would be dragging water into the inlet not exhaust gases into the coolant? I am not so sure.
Pistons aren't 'washed' which you sometimes associate with a slipped liner/porous block. Liner does not appear to the eye to be slipped.
I noticed that some of the ARP head studs (or rather, the nuts) weren't as tight as the others - I didn't assemble it last time but I would be surprised if they did it wrong - somehow they have become looser. I hope this isn't down to soft alloy in the block.
It leads me to the conclusion that I may have a porous block unless I can think of other things. I will need the alloy testing to see if it's soft and if that is fine then have the block top hat linered. I also think I need a new inlet manifold as not sure I can flat it off past the pitting - I'd be taking off quite a bit of metal.
So this car will be put on the shelf for a little while I reckon :/
Earlier that week it had developed a fault with the engine - getting hot very quickly and white smoke. Didn't want to let the stand down so arrived at the show in typical style having to turn the engine off in the queue and then push the car in. Ah well!
So after getting home I started pondering what it could be. December 2015 I had an issue with exhaust gases in the coolant so took heads off and they were no where near flat...so got them skimmed, engine put back together and it's been great. Or so I thought!
Now within a few minutes of driving the temperature goes up to about 3/4 on the gauge and normally (but not always) I get white smoke/steam - but as long as I am moving the temperature will com right back down again. If I was to sit in traffic it would certainly get hot quick. Took it to the local garage and yep it's pressuring within seconds and gases in the coolant. No knocking and performance seems fine.
It would be easy to think it's a cooling problem but I am pretty certain I can rule that out - yes that would make the temperature soar...but it wouldn't get gases in my coolant. And you'd have thought that it wouldn't simply cool down again.
Porous block (liner) seems to be the main suggestion and I can understand that conclusion. BUT...what I do not understand is that surely if this was the case, I wouldn't be able to drive through it the car cools down - it would simply get worse and worse? Again if someone wants to come up on a theory on that it would be appreciated! Perhaps that aluminium and steel heats and contracts at different rates and therefore you can't make plain assumptions of when things should happen? Hmm.
So now I have taken the heads off. Left hand bank breach between pots 2 and 3 on the exhaust side. Head was skimmed so maybe the block isn't flat? But that wouldn't get exhaust gases in my coolant. Nope - that is just a side issue. Maybe it is the regular issue of poor sealing with these 4.6 blocks and lack of contact area for the gasket.
You can see the clean plug and the valve is darker than the others - again - this isn't the issue in my opinion.
The inlet manifold is heavily pitted all four corners between water ways and you can see where the water has been travelling by the marks on the inlet. But that would be dragging water into the inlet not exhaust gases into the coolant? I am not so sure.
Pistons aren't 'washed' which you sometimes associate with a slipped liner/porous block. Liner does not appear to the eye to be slipped.
I noticed that some of the ARP head studs (or rather, the nuts) weren't as tight as the others - I didn't assemble it last time but I would be surprised if they did it wrong - somehow they have become looser. I hope this isn't down to soft alloy in the block.
It leads me to the conclusion that I may have a porous block unless I can think of other things. I will need the alloy testing to see if it's soft and if that is fine then have the block top hat linered. I also think I need a new inlet manifold as not sure I can flat it off past the pitting - I'd be taking off quite a bit of metal.
So this car will be put on the shelf for a little while I reckon :/
corazon
Well-Known Member
I know that ARP suggest a very high torque value for their studs and nuts, there seems to have been much confusion to what the correct figure is with many people not tightening them half as much as suggested..
If they were uneven or loose in places coupled with a poor sealing surface it's seems likely you'd experience blown head gasket symptoms such as exhaust gases in the coolant, white smoke and erratic temperatures.
If you do find you have a cracked porous block, I have heard multiple accounts of the irontite ceramic sealer products working, i have no personal experience of this however. There's obviously no substitute for a proper rebuild with top hat liners, might as well bore it to 5 litres then too
Which manifold do you need? I have both the stock SU and a p38 fuel injection one for sale
Jim
If they were uneven or loose in places coupled with a poor sealing surface it's seems likely you'd experience blown head gasket symptoms such as exhaust gases in the coolant, white smoke and erratic temperatures.
If you do find you have a cracked porous block, I have heard multiple accounts of the irontite ceramic sealer products working, i have no personal experience of this however. There's obviously no substitute for a proper rebuild with top hat liners, might as well bore it to 5 litres then too
Which manifold do you need? I have both the stock SU and a p38 fuel injection one for sale
Jim
RoverAlex
Active Member
I know that ARP suggest a very high torque value for their studs and nuts, there seems to have been much confusion to what the correct figure is with many people not tightening them half as much as suggested..
If they were uneven or loose in places coupled with a poor sealing surface it's seems likely you'd experience blown head gasket symptoms such as exhaust gases in the coolant, white smoke and erratic temperatures.
If you do find you have a cracked porous block, I have heard multiple accounts of the irontite ceramic sealer products working, i have no personal experience of this however. There's obviously no substitute for a proper rebuild with top hat liners, might as well bore it to 5 litres then too
Which manifold do you need? I have both the stock SU and a p38 fuel injection one for sale
Jim
Speaking to a guy that builds competition engines he never goes above 65 ft/lbs as the clamping force is far greater than regular bolts and takes the risk of pulling the studs out of the threads.
It is an SU one that I need but thinking about it I modified mine to fit the 2" SU carbs so I may dress the surface. I'll see...might give it a go and take a decision.
I too have heard of irontite having good results for a decent period of time. It is tempting I have to say!
RoverAlex
Active Member
Was trying to think of ways of doing that without taking the block out! Essentially, I do not know at the moment.
RoverAlex
Active Member
Right so a bit of an update, even though I did the work some time back. Thought hmm, I will dress the inlet manifold as that was a bit crusty, clean up the block deck, heads and then re-fit, give it some IronTite and see how it goes.
Addressed the rusted studs on the manifold - drilled out, hellicoil, done.
RH head went on fine no problem. Went to tighten up the LH head and two nuts would not tighten - that sinking feeling when you just know the thread is gone...but at the same time a bit of relief actually finding something as a fairly likely cause. I reckon that's it - bad sealing due to studs letting go - of course in the past a new gasket and tightening up was enough to mask it for a while until it destroys the gasket and breaches. The bad studs are also where I can see a breach on the block - it's all good news. So maybe my block is absolutely fine and this is the cause of all my woes. That's my theory anyway.
A bit of block thread (the rest was disintegrated)
Next going to hellicoil the block and tighten up to ****70ft lbs**** as that is what ARP have very recently changed the figures for the RV8. I reckon the original figures were just too much for it. Fairly confident about this now (he says!) - I have bought the hellicoil kit and my plan is to fit a scrap head ontop of the block as a guide and use a right angle air drill so I don't have to remove the engine.
So...my advice to anyone that gets these ARP head stud kits - if they haven't updated the instructions in the kit (there will be lots of stock about no doubt with the old instructions) - 70ft lbs!
Addressed the rusted studs on the manifold - drilled out, hellicoil, done.
RH head went on fine no problem. Went to tighten up the LH head and two nuts would not tighten - that sinking feeling when you just know the thread is gone...but at the same time a bit of relief actually finding something as a fairly likely cause. I reckon that's it - bad sealing due to studs letting go - of course in the past a new gasket and tightening up was enough to mask it for a while until it destroys the gasket and breaches. The bad studs are also where I can see a breach on the block - it's all good news. So maybe my block is absolutely fine and this is the cause of all my woes. That's my theory anyway.
A bit of block thread (the rest was disintegrated)
Next going to hellicoil the block and tighten up to ****70ft lbs**** as that is what ARP have very recently changed the figures for the RV8. I reckon the original figures were just too much for it. Fairly confident about this now (he says!) - I have bought the hellicoil kit and my plan is to fit a scrap head ontop of the block as a guide and use a right angle air drill so I don't have to remove the engine.
So...my advice to anyone that gets these ARP head stud kits - if they haven't updated the instructions in the kit (there will be lots of stock about no doubt with the old instructions) - 70ft lbs!
corazon
Well-Known Member
Hopefully that's it Alex, it seems most likely and in line with your symptoms. I'm interested in the outcome of the Irontite although you won't know for sure what improved what. If you can be bothered, you could finish the work and try running it without the sealer first, then you'd know for sure
Jim
Jim