My '72 P6 V8 is back in use on UK roads and once again wearing its silver on black 'K' plates!

mrtask wrote,...
What plugs are the best for a 10.25:1 V8? I know have NGK fitted

Do you mean 10.5 : 1 or is your engine running that touch less Al? Certainly with the former, NGK plugs are known to foul, so they need to be replaced with Champion items. With the lower comp engines, no problem, but not with the 10.5 : 1. I tried them many moons ago with my original engine, sooty plugs, poor running, misfire, all part of the course. Swapped back the Champions, problems solved immediately.

So replace with Champion L92YC and see how you go.

Ron.
 
Thanks for the suggestions Graeme, Jim, Ron, John! My favourite mechanic suggested I whip off the air filter box and elbows and take a spin around the industrial estate, see if I could notice a difference. No stuttering, pulled like a train again! I quite like the loud induction noise too! Opened up the air filter can, the two paper filter elements looked like the inside of a full vacuum cleaner bag! Brushed out the bigger fluff, blew the fine dust out with compressed air, put 'em back until my replacements arrive, and it sure as hell made all the difference! There was I surmising that I had an ignition problem, in fact the engine couldn't inhale properly. Don't suppose the new coil does any harm, except my wallet is about fifty € lighter. Salutory lesson learned. Keep the air filter clean!
Can't find my parts book, must be across town in my old lock-up. Anybody know if ORC 605191R is the right air filter element? Same as an similarly aged Land Rover V8, right? I can get that delivered next week for about €15,-...
 
Huge plumes of white smoke from the exhaust, stuttering forward motion, and a distinct drop in the level of coolant in the rad, all point to blown head gasket(s). I've ordered a set of tin gaskets, and having enquired at my reputable garage of choice how much folding stuff they'd want to relieve me of to do the job, I've decided to have a go myself instead. 'Cos I'm skint! Haven't done a head gasket before, so I thought I'd post and ask you chaps for your advice in advance! What will I need, beyond a torque wrench and set of Imperial impact sockets? Any pointers, things I should know, etc. ?
 
mrtask said:
What will I need, beyond a torque wrench and set of Imperial impact sockets? Any pointers, things I should know, etc. ?

I always do both. You'll need a thinwall socket for a couple of the headbolts, and personally, because the downpipe to manifold joints are such a PITA, I unbolt the manifolds from the heads and leave them sitting on the top of the downpipes. I refit the manifolds with spring washers and throw the lockwashers in the scrap. If you don't clean out the oilways in the heads, don't mix the head up. Best thing, obviously, is to clean out the oilways. With tin gaskets probably best not to fully tighten the outer row of head bolts. I can't really think of anything else. They're pretty easy to do.

Aren't all Impact sockets Imperial? Come to that aren't all tools?
 
Hello Harvey. You're so often the first person to reply.
I was warned not to try and leave the exhaust manifolds on the heads. I thought it might be easier to just disconnect them from the downpipes, but the Gaffer at Classic Wheels told me I shouldn't try and cut corners, and that if I leave them atop the exhaust that makes for less weight to have to lift clear of the engine whilst bending over the wings.
What should I clean out the oilways in the heads with? Compressed air? Pipe cleaners? Any sort of cleaning product? What about extra sealant for the rubber seals at either end of the valley gasket? Mine leak fairly profusely, as do the cork gaskets in the rocker covers. Do I need some sort of black goo as an extra sealant?
I just read on another thread on here of a chap using a flat piece of glass and some fine sandpaper to sand the mating face of his engine block. Should I try and do the same?
Oh, and what size spring washers do I need at least 16 of to refit the exhaust manifolds? Is there a metric equivalent that'd also do the job?
 
mrtask said:
What should I clean out the oilways in the heads with? Compressed air? Pipe cleaners? Any sort of cleaning product?

All or any of the above.


mrtask said:
What about extra sealant for the rubber seals at either end of the valley gasket? Mine leak fairly profusely, as do the cork gaskets in the rocker covers. Do I need some sort of black goo as an extra sealant?

I've never had problems with those, although pattern ones may not fit as well. Genuine should still be available. If you're having those sorts of leaks, maybe the engine breather system needs looking at.



mrtask said:
I just read on another thread on here of a chap using a flat piece of glass and some fine sandpaper to sand the mating face of his engine block. Should I try and do the same?

I saw those pics too, and the results look good, so why not?


mrtask said:
Oh, and what size spring washers do I need at least 16 of to refit the exhaust manifolds? Is there a metric equivalent that'd also do the job?

3/8"
 
harveyp6 said:
mrtask said:
I just read on another thread on here of a chap using a flat piece of glass and some fine sandpaper to sand the mating face of his engine block. Should I try and do the same?

I saw those pics too, and the results look good, so why not?

Perhaps because if you are not careful enough you will end up with grinding sand down the bores and the oilways that will guarantee that your engine full rebuild will be much sooner than you could possibly imagine?
Sorry to jump in, but in reality clumsy head gasket replacements could do some spectacular damage.
 
Demetris said:
Perhaps because if you are not careful enough you will end up with grinding sand down the bores and the oilways that will guarantee that your engine full rebuild will be much sooner than you could possibly imagine?
Sorry to jump in, but in reality clumsy head gasket replacements could do some spectacular damage.

By "sandpaper" I just assumed he meant emery paper and then W&D, but tbh whatever you use you'd have to be pretty hamfisted to get to the point of wrecking the engine cleaning up the block face. Such people shouldn't be undertaking the job in the first place, and I wouldn't put the OP in that category.
 
Well, perhaps i was overeacting. It was just the thought of sandpaper or emery paper debris near an engine with its guts open than rang the bell.
 
For the gasket faces, I'd get them checked with a straight edge to see if they are true and if so, then a clean with a scraper to remove the
crud and possibly a light polish with Scorchbrite if you felt so inclined. I may be old school in that I also use copper spray on the gasket faces
unless the manufacturer specifically says not to.
 
Anybody have a secret technique they'd like to share for removing the lower bolt at the back of the driver's side exhaust manifold? Even with the heat shield for the brake master cylinder removed, I can't fumble a 9/16" socket in there! Most irksome. Surely it isn't a case of having to lift the whole engine!?!?!?
 
mrtask said:
Anybody have a secret technique they'd like to share for removing the lower bolt at the back of the driver's side exhaust manifold? Even with the heat shield for the brake master cylinder removed, I can't fumble a 9/16" socket in there! Most irksome. Surely it isn't a case of having to lift the whole engine!?!?!?
It is possible but i can't remember how. Have you tried a universal joint adapter and extension with your socket?
Once you crack the tension off it I think you can undo the rest by hand fairly easily..
Jim
 
I *think* I used a combination of ratchet spanners and normal spanner from below. Quite tricky though! When I had the manifold off I ended up cutting the rearmost bolt hole so that it is a slot instead. Now I can just leave the bolt wound into the head, drop the manifold on and nip it up, much easier :D
 
Heads are off, combustion chambers are de-coked, and I'm waiting for the postman to bring me my gasket set so I can put it all back together. I noticed that the inner two cylinders on the left bank (looking forward from the drivers seat), and the outermost cylinders on the right bank, were all much sootier and caked in deposits than the other four. Am I right in thinking that shows that one carburettor is over fuelling? Probably demonstrating just how dim I am by asking this, but which carb is the culprit? I thought I would be able to tell by looking at the inlet manifold, but I confess I haven't figured it out.
Workshop manual specifies some special sealant for the cylinder head bolts (left it in the garage, and can't remember now exactly what it says). What product should I use?
Is it imperative that I have the heads checked to see if they have warped? I ask because I don't have a straight edge, though I have got some feeler gauges, and in all honesty I'm not confident I know what I'm doing sufficiently well to get such precide measuring done right! I'm going to surmise that simply plonking the heads back on without checking them counts as a bodge, and probably renders the whole exercise futile in the event they have warped. Just want to ask you knowledgeable folk!
I was expecting to see some visual evidence of 'blow through' or whatever the right expression is, from one or other cylinder, to the water jacket. Or a 'steam-cleaned' combustion chamber, or two. Not that I have any real experience, but it looks to my untrained eye more like maybe the third cylinders from the front of the engine, on both banks, were leaking into the 'valley'. Surely that wouldn't pressurise the cooling system? Misdiagnosis of cylinder head gasket failure on my part, perhaps (probably)?
Hope the gaskets turn up before the Easter weekend. Look forward to any comments from you guys.
Incidentally, a Scotchbrite pad has removed all gasket traces from the heads and block, and I didn't risk gritty debris down the cylinders by trying the 'piece of glass and fine sand/emery paper' method. Don't worry Demetris, or at least not too much! Thanks for your cautionary warning.
Oh yeah, a couple more things; cleaning out the oilways as advised – I see the oilways that feed the rocker gear, and they're free of crud. Are there more oil passages in the heads though?
Lastly (for now anyway), should the rocker arms feel very 'smooth' if moved by hand? I took the valve gear off but haven't dismantled it, just a spray clean with aerosol "brake cleaner", a wipe down with a clean lint-free cloth and a blast of compressed air. A couple of the rocker arms feel ever-so-slightly "graunchy", for want of a better word... Does that mean I will have to take the assemblies apart and inspect further? The tips of the rockers and the tops of the push rods don't have any visible wear patterns, they all look the same, smooth and polished...
...and one more question! What sealant-out-of-a-tube do I need for the intake manifold gasket, and the angled junction for the top rad hose at the front of the intake manifold, if any? Or should these both be fitted 'dry'? Sorry to ask so many questions fellas, hope y'all can enlighten me!
 
mrtask said:
Workshop manual specifies some special sealant for the cylinder head bolts (left it in the garage, and can't remember now exactly what it says). What product should I use?

Some do use the sealant and it is still available, but I juts put engine oil on the threads when I did mine - that's what the Land Rover mechanics I asked recommended.

mrtask said:
I was expecting to see some visual evidence of 'blow through' or whatever the right expression is, from one or other cylinder, to the water jacket. Or a 'steam-cleaned' combustion chamber, or two. Not that I have any real experience, but it looks to my untrained eye more like maybe the third cylinders from the front of the engine, on both banks, were leaking into the 'valley'. Surely that wouldn't pressurise the cooling system? Misdiagnosis of cylinder head gasket failure on my part, perhaps (probably)?

Usually you can see a fault or thin bit on the old gasket and a corresponding mark on the block or head, but if it's not been leaking for long then it may not have marked them. Leaking into the valley gasket isn't good though as you'll be losing compression (and power) on each stroke and contaminating your engine oil.
 
harveyp6 said:
mrtask said:
What will I need, beyond a torque wrench and set of Imperial impact sockets? Any pointers, things I should know, etc. ?

I always do both. You'll need a thinwall socket for a couple of the headbolts, and personally, because the downpipe to manifold joints are such a PITA, I unbolt the manifolds from the heads and leave them sitting on the top of the downpipes. I refit the manifolds with spring washers and throw the lockwashers in the scrap. If you don't clean out the oilways in the heads, don't mix the head up. Best thing, obviously, is to clean out the oilways. With tin gaskets probably best not to fully tighten the outer row of head bolts. I can't really think of anything else. They're pretty easy to do.

Aren't all Impact sockets Imperial? Come to that aren't all tools?

When I did mine I left the exhaust manifolds on the heads which did make it easy to reomve them on the bench, but now I have leaky down pipe joints instead. :roll:
 
After quite a wait the gasket set eventually arrived, and now I've buttoned the top end of the motor all back together.
Beforehand, I borrowed a straight edge ('Haar Lineal' in German, I can't find a translation) and established that the heads weren't warped. Measured all the cylinder head bolts and satisfied myself that none were elongated.
Only one bolt left over in my bucket of bits'n'pieces. Hmmm. I checked everything three times at least, so I'm a little perplexed where it came from. Whatever, with no small amount of trepidation I fired the car up and, amzingly, it worked! Test drive back across town saw it stumble and stutter out at a few traffic lights, so today I popped in on my mates at Classic Wheels where their ever-patient chief mechanic helped me set it up a bit better. Now I know finally how to use a vernier guage properly (!), understand how the 'jet' in the SU carb affects the lean- or richness of the mixture, having now set them up equally, and know which screws the idle screws are! I'll need to have another play with it tomorrow, as it still stumbles and expires in 'D' at a standstill, at parking speeds on full lock, and in reverse. At least I have a half an idea what I'm doing now!
I think I must have moved the locknut on the kickdown cable when connecting it back up, as I have a feeling the shift points now come later, and on engaging 'R' it clunks noticeably heavier than it did before. I'll try and fettle that tomorrow too.
A gander at my Parts book shows an extra clip or wire retainer for the kickdown cable, which is absent on my car. Essential, or superfluous?
There are no more big clouds of white vapour out of the exhaust, the fumes don't smell as eye-wateringly rich as they did before, and all in all I'm quite chuffed with myself. Having said that, something is bound to go 'Bang!' tomorrow, right!?
 
mrtask said:
A gander at my Parts book shows an extra clip or wire retainer for the kickdown cable, which is absent on my car.

Essential, or superfluous?

The latter. Most don't have it.
 
Fettling the kickdown cable has been a bit of a trial, not least because the 'crimp' is still present on the cable, but loose, rendering it quite useless. :roll:
Having tickled just about everything I now have the timing at 6°BTDC (it had been at 8° before), the idle down to 750/800rpm in neutral, rising to about 900rpm in 'D' or 'N', which engages without a clunk. Road manners are considerably improved! However, in town in stop start traffic, the idle speed in gear at the lights wanders a bit, and sometimes stutters out if I don't nurse the throttle delicately. If I lift the lift pin on the right hand carb the revs don't rise and fall back, unlike the left carb. So I'm thinking it'll need to come off and come apart, a little further than I've ever previously had a carb dismantled into pieces! Sticking float perhaps? Long bank holiday weekend might see me tinkering some more...
I've established I have BAF needles. Can anybody here take that information, plus the cam spec, Kent 214, and tell me if that sounds like a good set-up with bog standard exhaust front to back? The needles weere originally for a twin exhaust set-up with a crossover pipe behind the box, and the carbs had conical K&N filters rather than the NADA airbox I have now.
Some more questions fellas:
Which carb feeds which cylinders? Surely the air/fuel mixture doesn't mix in the tower so both carbs feed all eight?
Is it correct that crank and flywheel are balance together? When I swap out my automatic for an LT77 5-speed, will I need to get the manual flywheel balanced to the crankshaft?
Is it possible to bolt the automatic flywheel and the manual flywheel together and have the manual flywheel balanced to match?
 
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