Trouble with power steering

Barten

Barten

Active Member
My power steering system doesn't seem to work after I refitted it to the car. The car is very heavy on the steering actually worse than my other Rover without servo assistance. Today I tried bleeding the system according to the wm. My brother helped me and watched the reservoir. When I opened the bleed screw, level started to rise in the reservoir, it was overflowing and I had to shut the engine down. Tried to drain some of the oil from the reservoir and tried again, same thing happened.
I was thinking about two possible reasons for this. One that i have connected the hoses wrong, but that is not very likely, the other may be the power steering pump working the wrong way around. I do not remember how it was fitted before I took the car apart, but it was definitely not fitted in the correct place with the right bracket.
Also I must add that no fluid came out when I released the bleed screw. I hope some of you will have a clue about what the problem is!
Regards, Barten
 
Try bleeding the system by raising the front wheels off the ground, and then with the engine running, turn the steering from lock to lock a good few times. Don't hold it on full lock though.

Where did the pump originate from? The P5B and P6B use the same pump, but the internal parts are assembled differently so that the P5B pump runs clockwise, but the P6B pump runs anticlockwise. The P6B pump sits on a bracket forward of the engine, with the pulley towards the rear of the car.
 
Hi Harvey, I really don't know the origin of the pump in my car. The previous owner had got hold of the power steering set in England sometimes around 1985. It was put on with some kind of homemade bracket and I think it was installed on the opposite side of where it is installed now. So it runs anticlockwise. So if it was a P5b pump it might run the wrong way now, and that can probably explain why I did not get any power assistance from it. Do you know if it is possible to swap around on the parts in the pump?
 
It might be worth running the engine with the pressure pipe on the pump slackened, if it is running the correct way fluid should come out under pressure. If nothing comes out under pressure it would tend to confirm your theory.

The pump can be dismantled and reassembled the correct way. IIRC there is a diagram of how it should be assembled for anticlockwise running in the WM.
 
PS. The pulleys are different on P5B and P6B as well so if you have a homemade bracket, then if the pulley is the wrong type that would be another indicator of the wrong pump being fitted. P6B pulley is flat, the P5B dished.
 
Ok Harvey. Thats a good hint on the pulley. It was actually dished, and I had to get hold of a flat pulley to be able to mount it the normal place for my car. Now the only thing to do for me is to take ff the pump, try to split it and assemble it correctly for anticlockwise running, right! Thanks Harvey for pushing me the right way!
Regards Barten
 
I have pulled the servo pump and dismantled it. I have opened it and it looks like the carrier is sitting the right way according to my wm. I have checked the valve and spring and can't find anything wrong with it. Well I have to assemble it and try again.
Regards, Barten
 
I have assembled the pump now and I still don't get any pressure in the steering. When i feel the hoses it seems like there is pressure on the supply hose, but not in the HP hose going to the steering box. I have tried to open up the connection on the box side With the engine running, it did not seem to give anything. However, when I dismantle the hose With the engine off, there is fluid coming out from the steering box which is normal I Guess. I took a photo of the pump and the two Connected hoses. The upper is the HP hose and the lower is the supply hose from the reservoir.
Hope it make sense! regards, Barten
rsz_20171017_201402[1].jpg
 
From that pic, the pump should be set up internally for anticlockwise running. Both hoses have banjo fittings, but the pressure pipe should have a screw in fitting, the banjo on the pressure pipe is probably because it's a made up pipe not OE.
More to follow.
 
I can't find the pic from Quattro's thread showing his pump, but if I could I think it would show you have the pipes the wrong way around on the pump, which is only possible because the pressure pipe has been made incorrectly using a banjo fitting.
 
I don't know how to share quattros photo, but I found it when i searched on 'power steering' and 'quattro' in the search section. It looks like you are correct Harvey ! Then to fix it I will have to get a x- over made.
Regards, Barten
 
Now I am really puzzled. I took off the PAS pump again, spilled lot of oil as usual and got it off. Started to examine the pump. There are different Dimensions on the two holes for the inlet/outlet. When I compare my pump With the Picture from Quattros thread, something do not add up. It looks like my pump is a Mirror image of his pump. I looked on the JRW page on a Picture of P6 and P5 pumps there, and it looks like my pump has the shaft coming out on the opposite side! What the heck can this pumps have been taken from?
Take a look at the two Pictures below and you will see it.
I tried to turn them in counterclockwise direction (the way the engine turn it) and I could feel a slight vaccum in the HP outlet . When I rotated it clockwise, there was some pressure on the HP outlet and some vaccum in the inlet hole.
Now what? Maybe I can still turn the internals around and get some opposite action on it. I can only try, I have nothing to loose. I Guess I have to order a New one from JRW, but I don't know if I can get it without having a correct old pump to send him.
Regards, Barten


rsz_20171018_094738[1].jpg rsz_20171018_094718[1].jpg
 
Hi, the pump body is itself a common enough pump and is also used on hydraulic systems on all sorts of vehicles and plant. You have ended up with an unknown quantity but you do know that it can supply pressure. You could try going to a place that does hydraulic pipes and hoses and getting fittings to go in the appropriate holes. Or if you want originality bite the bullet and get the right pump and put yours in exchange and hope they don't notice (leave it a few days before returning the old unit;)). Re-conditioners are not usually bothered as long as they have a unit to rebuild and are not over bothered if they end up with one that's irrepairable. Does this ease your conscience?

Colin
 
You can dismantle the pump and reassemble it to run either way. The roller carrier inside just needs to be turned over. If it's building pressure turning the "wrong" way, strip it, turn the roller carrier over, and reassemble it to see whether that improves things.

As Colnerove says, they are a pump used for multipple applications, so they can be altered to suit.

Power Steering System / Pump.jpg
 
Thanks for answers guys! I have tried to turn the roller carrier (thats the impeller right?) upside down but it doesn't seem to help. I still need to turn in clockwise to get pressure out of the HP outlet. So I think I need to bite the bullet and get hold of a new or a used one. I have mailed JRW and asked if it is possible to buy a new pump without returning the old unit. That would be easiest for me. Or I could try to post a wanted add here.
Regards, Barten
 
Barten said:
I have tried to turn the roller carrier (thats the impeller right?) upside down but it doesn't seem to help.
Click to expand...

All I can think is that in your pump the vanes aren't offset, which if so, turning it over won't make any difference.
 
I am not sure if I understand you correctly Harvey. I took some new pictures with the pump open and the impeller turned either way. But it does not look like it has any effect on the pressure output other than maybe a little lower suck on the HP outlet when turing it ccw. I have not tried to install in the car it With the impeller upside Down though. Is it anything else you think I should do, am I missing something here?
First Picture is With the impeller the way it was from the start, second pic the impeller is upside Down . Well I Guess it must be tried, one easy way is to pour a little oil in the inlet port (after reassembling the pump) and then turn the pulley both ways, I will see very soon which hole sucks and which hole squirts!
regards, Barten

rsz_20171018_205447[1].jpg

rsz_20171018_210017[1].jpg
 
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