What's next at Lake View

Ethel

Ethel isn't just my first Rover P6, she is also the very first car I bought with my own money.

I'd done my homework and had been read to believe that the red 3500S was the car to have.

I've since learned that the mystique associated with the S is somewhat overblown - the automatics are at least as nice as the S but I only found out what a nice car I'd bought after I handed over the cash - the previous owner handed me a well-thumbed copy of the June 1994 edition of Classic and Sports Car magazine with a feature on the car and a huge dossier of the car's history.

Of course all our own cars are champions of our own leagues but Ethel's omission from Nick Dunning's recent article about the so called Premier League of P6 was rather surprising, especially as one of the other cars in the league, property of dear friends of mine, has been parked on grass for several years.

The car also features in a "Your Classic" supplement from November 1992 which shows the high standard of the restoration done by a chap called Richard Jacob in 1990/91, including many photographs of the work in progress. She also represents the Rover P6 in 1001 Dream Cars (ISBN 9781445435053)

Thanks to Richard's excellent work and the care shown to the car by the car's subsequent owners, Ethel is still in sound condition but time and wear and tear have taken their toll.

Ethel was booked into Lake View in 2013 when disaster struck - I wrecked Lil, my shiny but rotten Three Thousand Five.


Rovers on parade, LVG by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Ethel had to hold the fort while Lil's replacement was built out of the various bits and pieces that had accumulated at Lake View since Ethel came onto the forecourt back in 2007.


Lake View Garage by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Ethel is very much the Elizabeth Báthory of the Rover P6 world and this was evidenced by the shed loads of car parts we were able to use to build Hildegarde (codenamed Lil 2.0)


This was the blue Rover 3500S by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

After the Wizard of the Lake has caught his breath, Ethel will get her turn in the Time Machine.

This will be a golden opportunity to put right some wrongs that I have inflicted on the car with the best of intentions over the last 7 years.

Ethel is getting her original 4-speed gearbox back. Her SU carburettors and her original engine too.



Ethel's present engine was removed from a later 3500S and given a comprehensive rebuild and an uprated camshaft - this will be removed lock stock and four-barrel carburettor to be put in Helga, the smoking blue Three Thousand Five who burns nearly half a sump of oil to a tank of petrol.

Helga has a ZF gearbox that will make such better use of the uprated engine than an LT77 can, even a nice LT77. Ethel's LT77 isn't all that nice.

Ethel will have a set of P5 Rostyles (thanks to Helga) for show days but will have a new set of SD1 Vitesse alloys for daily use - I just prefer them.

The drivers seat is shot to bits thanks to my fat backside but the rest of the interior is acceptable - I don't know what is for the best here.

Full body respray. Ethel was Mexico brown when she left the factory but in spite of it being clichéd and prone to fading, she'll stay red. The rare factory fitted sunroof will be brought back to life - this will be a project in its own right.

Electric fuel pump to be removed (possibly resited at rear of vehicle)
Uprated shocks, poly bushes, springs identical to Hildegarde (Lil 2.0)

Ethel needs and deserves the attentions of a master, so Tom will be working most of the magic - my input will be far less than with the Lil 2.0 project. If I can reduce Tom's hours by a bit of scraping and blasting, great, I will be glad to but Ethel doesn't need anything like as much work as Hildegarde - Ethel has been a runner since the 1990s but John Major was PM the last time the green Rover was on the road.

Helga



WP_20140624_073.jpg by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

While Tom works his magic on Ethel, I will hone my skills on Helga - I will make my first attempt at a full body respray.

I might use fibreglass wings because I will never be able to achieve a finish to the standard like Tom but with his guidance I am sure I could turn out something could put my name to, even if I won't be using the DAB numberplate.

BPH970H is of course the Practical Classics P6, the one owned by Danny Hopkins and I believe it would be vain to replace it with what would be a personalised plate - it would also strip the car of its identity and people would fail to recognise it at shows and I could lose valuable insight from people who might know the car.



Also within my skillset, just about - the horrible cracked dashboard with its extraneous dials will be replaced with an A1 dashboard from Lil - there's even a genuine tachometer and clock.


Rebuilding a Rover Three Thousand Five by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The plastic steering wheel will be replaced by a bog-standard black 'coat hanger' steering wheel like Lil's. Lil's was ruined in the crash - buckled like a taco where I braced myself in the crash.


WP_20140422_002.jpg by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

It was obviously in tobacco leaf originally and has been sprayed over in P5 blue - I am in two minds whether to respray it properly in the distinctive, very regal blue or return it to its original colour. I think the beige seats, restored by me and taken from the wreck of Lil would look fine with either colour.



WP_20140518_020.jpg by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

There's some excellent tobacco leafs around, including James Dean's.

Uprated shocks, poly bushes, springs identical to Hildegarde (Lil 2.0)
 

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ethelred said:
Of course all our own cars are champions of our own leagues but Ethel's omission from Nick Dunning's recent article about the so called Premier League of P6 was rather surprising, especially as one of the other cars in the league, property of dear friends of mine, has been parked on grass for several years.

Nick's article wasn't about a line-up of cars that are in great condition and a credit to their owners. Your car is fantastic, but so are many others, especially ones owned by the Northern Lads.

The article was his personal Champion's League, which included many factory cars with unique histories and several non-factory cars that are rare and unusual. VVC was included as it was the official last of the line car, and has a very unique history - including being sold by Gaydon, which they supposedly saw as a mistake after the fact.
 
ethelred said:
Of course all our own cars are champions of our own leagues but Ethel's omission from Nick Dunning's recent article about the so called Premier League of P6 was rather surprising, especially as one of the other cars in the league, property of dear friends of mine, has been parked on grass for several years.

My article - written as a piece of light reading at very short notice due to us not having a major historic article ready at the time of the publication deadline - is purely a personal list of favourite cars that I have had dealings with or have impressed me, not to be taken seriously as anyone's definitive list.

I couldn't possibly cover all the stunning P6's out there, and I know there are many outstanding cars I've never had the chance to look over, or even seen in the flesh/metal.

My main personal interest stems mainly around either 'factory' cars and early Sharkstooth 2000's (I'm not really a V8 head), and I'm personally not over-keen on rally cars/motorsport or modified vehicles. Others - just as knowledgable as me - are, so no-one could come up with the same list.

I'm very pleased with the (unexpected) positive reaction this article has had though, it's nice to see people are reading the stuff we do.

Our next in-depth 'Driving Force' article should be of interest to anyone who wonders just what happened after William Martin Hurst tripped over that small block Buick Skylark engine at the boat plant in Missouri....
 
NickDunning said:
My article - written as a piece of light reading at very short notice due to us not having a major historic article ready at the time of the publication deadline - is purely a personal list of favourite cars that I have had dealings with or have impressed me, not to be taken seriously as anyone's definitive list.

It was a great article Nick, as stated above, I wasn't having a dig at you.

I've met you at many shows in the past - I don't know you very well but your reputation as an authority on the Rover precedes you.

Thanks

Chris
 
ethelred said:
It was obviously in tobacco leaf originally and has been sprayed over in P5 blue - I am in two minds whether to respray it properly in the distinctive, very regal blue or return it to its original colour. I think the beige seats, restored by me and taken from the wreck of Lil would look fine with either colour...
T-O-B-A-C-C-O RULES...!!!!!!!!!!
 
I was flicking through some of my old photos this afternoon when I saw a familiar backdrop, and I think that's a familiar car too!


P6 by cdconelrad, on Flickr

Taken in November 2012 (long before I bought my P6) on the way to Uttoxeter in my Sprite.
 
I just bought this green V8 - looks like it needs some shiny bits.

Just as well I have plenty of shiny bits in my stash.

Can anyone name the shade of green?

$_12.JPG
 
I was watching that auction, I was really expecting the price to rocket in the last few minutes. A real bargain, I think!

GRTV8 - the eBay car with wire wheels is a S1 2000, but it is the same (or a very similar) colour. Sage green, in that case.
 
Conrad D. Conelrad said:
I was watching that auction, I was really expecting the price to rocket in the last few minutes. A real bargain, I think!

GRTV8 - the eBay car with wire wheels is a S1 2000, but it is the same (or a very similar) colour. Sage green, in that case.

Cheers Conelrad.

I already own a sage green V8 - Hildegarde (WXC426K) is a sage green because she was built using the panels of the wrecked Lil (DAB761H).
 
Conrad D. Conelrad said:
So you have four now?

I'm Peter from the Manchester meets btw, if that adds any context to my posts!

Oh yeah - sorry about that :oops: It's been a long day.

Yes, this brings the total to 4. The chances of this one stealing my heart away are almost nil - my aim here is to get an MOT on it, shine it up, work some of my own magic on it - if I can keep the Wizard hours down to 20 or less I should be able to make a modest profit but that is most definitely not the object of the exercise.

If, heaven forbid, there is welding required to get this roadworthy, this will be very bad news for this car and I will break it without mercy - however the pedigree of the chap who has sold it to me makes this highly unlikely. I'm expecting to need to fix the brakes, get the petrol flowing again and then start shining it up with the emphasis on preservation rather than restoration.
 
Like Helga the blue Three Thousand Five, this car was once tobacco leaf.


WP_20140808_001.jpg by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

We have Helga and Hildegarde so this car is Hermione.

Ethel the S doesn't look too impressed - its been insult after insult for my poor old car - some scally swiped her alloy wheels, then her rear headrests vanished - although a replacement pair have since been sourced. Today someone borrowed 25 litres from her tank.


WP_20140808_012.jpg by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Hermione has been resprayed slighly more thoroughly that Helga's sprayover job but this is an amateur job - to get an idea, if I'd done this job myself as a first attempt I'd be moderately pleased with my efforts but if I'd paid someone - like the Wizard for instance, I'd be hopping mad.

The common paint defect below is called crazing.


WP_20140808_020.jpg by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The carpets were sodden and smelly and have already been discarded, as have the badly sunburned rear seats.

WP_20140808_017.jpg by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The front seats will be on their way too after the MOT resit.


WP_20140808_018.jpg by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

I have a perfectly serviceable, authentic set of seats for this car, seen here in Helga, along with a very decent set of carpets newly removed from Hildegarde.

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Hermione shall be the garage car - an unsung runner until the time is right for her to find a new keeper.
 
The Wizard of the Lake was trying to make like Harry Potter over the weekend and took a tumble off a hill while riding his mountain bike.

Battered and bruised, he'll live to fix another P6 but he won't be swapping engines or gearboxes for a while.

Please get better soon, Tom, the cars need you.

DDF476L, the former tobacco leaf car I grabbed from eBay a few weeks ago is so dopey I can only surmise that the shade of green is Cannabis Leaf.
I can't think of anything else to explain why this car is such a dope.

Thankfully the MOT centre is very near to Lake View because this car breaks down every few miles.

DDF, Dopey Daffodil, clearly has a problem that has been annoying the previous owners to the extent that they have preferred to get rid rather than troubleshoot it.

There was a clue in the eBay listing where it said
"it starts but runs has fuel starvation symptoms so probably needs a good tune up etc."

Yes, the fuel line and filter were gunked up but the new set of plugs and various other electrical and fuel-related bits and pieces that were in the car's boot suggest that the previous keepers have tried more than one solution to fix the problem without resolving it.

Thankfully the troubleshooting skills on hand at Lake View are of the very highest standard - Tom is an expert with years of experience and his methodology is in line with my own ability to go back to first principles of substitution and elimination - I am not just good at fixing recalcitrant computer systems, I can get to the bottom of mechanical problems as well.

The underlying problem with this car is chronic lack of use but the acute problem seems to be electrical - the various voltages have been measured and it is trying to spark with 3.8V when it needs 10.5V.

When cold, the voltages are good.

The car starts and runs but breaks down after a few miles after the engine gets warmed up.

I'm the current record holder with about 15 miles without breaking down.

It broke down on the way back from the MOT when Dave was driving it. It broke down on the way back from the retest with Tom's dad at the wheel.

I took it to Bridge End in Leek to fill her up. Just on the descent into Leek, the car spluttered and juddered but did not actually break down and I was able to fill her to the brim with petrol. I notice that the fuel gauge doesn't give a correct reading - I've seen worse gauges but this is yet another pointer that the car hasn't been used much - the sender units corrode if the level in the tank doesn't vary.

I drove for a couple of miles at 4500rpm in first gear in the hope of an old fashioned Italian tune-up clearing out some crap in the carburettors. The fuel filter was replaced and some filthy horrible brown sludge issued from the fuel line - now running clear as befits fresh Shell V-Power.


Filling up at Bridge End (A523) by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The car didn't break down on the way back from Bridge End but Tom and I managed to get it to fail to proceed within a few miles on this bend on the A523, near the poo farm about a mile from Lake View.


Fuel issues by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

A passing motorist called in at Lake View to say that Tom had broken down in a green P6 so help would have been soon coming even if the car hadn't fired up and got us back to HQ.


Changing the battery by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The battery was old and feeble so Ethel's 1 year old battery has been donated to the cause.

There are so many pluses with DDF in spite of the shaky start - when she runs, she's quick. Great oil pressure, good gearbox.



Peas in pod by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

She'd run the pants off her hideously expensive sibling in a straight line.

Her brakes are good, as are her instruments.

It's not a good idea to be too nutty with an ancient, unknown car with old tyres but she corners not too badly at all, nothing like the dumper truck one might expect.

Like WXC and Ethel, this car has power steering but the steering feels much heavier than the other pair, which have much wider tyres. The PAS is functional but not as effective as it might be.

That Blaupunkt only produces white noise, suggesting an antenna problem. Given that the source of the water ingress that wrecked the interior of this decent vehicle was at the aerial, I'd say we need a new one.



Upgrading to electronic ignition has not cured this car's ills and neither has the replacement of this horror show, discovered behind the dashboard.


FW: ignition amp by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr


FW: ignition amp by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Wizard of the Lake said:
now fitted , car starts , runs , revs ... splutters and dies. Coil voltage erratic.
Mechanic's patience is being tested.
Remove dash.
Discover lots of rust and more importantly green corrosion on the main junction box



serious corrosion to terminals



broken and corroded trip cable and a rotten dash earth terminal.(top right)
Dry stored ? err NO
 
So after an unexpectedly long stay at that exclusive health spa for geriatric Rovers, Dopey Daffodil has finally left the forecourt of Lake View Garage and is now in Manchester.


Changeover by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

We swapped over this evening. Dare I say that Dopey Daffodil looks slightly pensive, if a P6 can be pensive, as the Helga, the Blue McFoo looks on.

It turns out that Tom's initial hunch was right all along - the coil was faulty but so was the replacement coil. This car will now run without breaking down, something it hasn't done for many years judging by the patchy history that came with the vehicle.

In a vicious cycle of neglect, the petrol tank is full of rust particles and so in spite of two inline filters, one each side of the aftermarket electric fuel pump, itself no doubt fitted in a futile attempt to fix the problem, we still have signs of fuel starvation. I think we are going to get through quite a few fuel filters until we can source a replacement fuel tank.

In the meantime I have nothing to lose by sticking a few neodymium magnets (from my mountain of old hard drives) on the bottom of the petrol tank well away where from where the fuel line exits in the hope of keeping the rust particles in the tank.

I always stick a couple of these magnets on the oil filters of my cars but have always laughed at people who fall for inline magnets to attach to their cars to get better performance but maybe just this once, because I know what the problem is, it might actually help - forget all that hocus pocus about the magnets lining up the (non polar) molecules in the petrol - that is complete and utter crap but this car has some iron particles in the fuel - the magnets will trap at least some of this.

It took 50 minutes to get home from Lake View, which is excellent going on a Friday evening.

As Tom promised me, this car goes like stink when it is on song.

He's put four good wheels and tyres on the car - these were actually on the car I crashed in 2013 and the purists might spot that the hubcaps are from a Series 1 P6 - there is no Rover badge. Oh well. I love hubcaps and I wanted them on WXC but Tom re-twisted my arm and just put Ethel's alloys on.

The car does indeed run very well when the fuel is flowing - it is everything that the very expensive WXC426K should be under the bonnet - fierce kickdown, pulls strongly all the way to the redline and is very smooth all the way there - none of the wheedly, can't be arsed with this pinking you get when you ask WXC to get a move on.

I have a yardstick in the form of the eastbound on-slip of M602 J2 - I use this road most working days - in Ethel or especially the Blue McFoo, you can have your licence in shreds by the mainline of the motorway if you like.

WXC on the other hand has no difficulty at all in reaching a safe motorway speed by the end of the slip road but she can't go anything like as fast as the first two cars and I fancy she'd be frozen out of the medal places by DDF if all four cars were to head down this slip road like some nightmare remake of the Sweeney.

We could do with an oil change because we have tappet noise at the traffic lights.

Now I know the wheels and tyres are good, I also know that this car corners and handles very nicely indeed and it just flies over speed humps - usually Rover P6s - or mine at least - are terrible. Ethel has/d a dodgy exhaust, WXC is lowered by 60mm so has to slow right down to a crawl and BPH, the Blue McFoo, isn't keen on them either.

There's a little rat run, discovered when Poynton Village was being remodelled that cuts the corner off the A523 to the A5149 - Clifford Road. In WXC, this is an embarrassment and it is quicker just to use the roundabouts but this evening, in DDF I was able to drive happily at 20mph all the way through these large humps.

Irritatingly, I got the first sign of fuel starvation at the start of the NSL signs on the A555 and was unable to exceed 70mph on the deserted D2.

We had to pull over at Gatley lights just to make sure we weren't breaking down.

We were a bit juddery on the M60 to the A5103 but the fact that I was prepared to join a motorway shows my early faith in the car even when it isn't yet on full song.

I am going to put carpets and an interior in the car over the weekend, get the power polisher on it and see how well she scrubs up.


Lake View by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Spare a thought for Ethel - she's on her third set of wheels this year and they keep getting worse - these are of course off DDF and are only keeping Ethel off the ground. Tom's agreed to take Ethel into the garage before the weather turns in - she should be ready for summer 2015. Ethel is donating her engine to Helga, the blue McFoo which I have become very fond of but who burns as much oil as petrol.


The Blue McFoo by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr
 
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