P6 electric conversion

[Mark B]

Visited the car in Sydney yesterday. Delivered a new set of rubber seals to get ready for painting.
I may have gone overboard but most of the panels and glass will be coming out for repainting so better to have replacement seals on hand.
I picked up the heater box to take home and refurbish. The plan is to replace heater matrix with a PTC heater (probably be 400v so I’ll leave the wiring to the professionals).
Suggestions from Chris the upholsterer: Remove the fabric from the original Furflex and replace it with felt or suede.
English Wilton Tan looks like a good colour match for the original Mortlake brown.

 

[Mark B]

Abit more progress. Everything high voltage is being done by the professionals. My job this week was fixing up the heater box. Leaky old heater matrix out, to be replaced by a PTC electric element.

 

[Lewis Stephens]

Mark, you're making great progress. I'm amazed that you are doing it, but good on you. You will no doubt have the first P6 electric in Australia, if not in the world. I'm in Ballarat, so hoping I can see the finished product one day.

 

[Mark B]

Thanks Lewis,
Yeah I’ll definitely be taking it out and about once it’s up and running and Ballarat will be within range.

 

[GRTV8]

Visited the car in Sydney yesterday. Delivered a new set of rubber seals to get ready for painting.
I may have gone overboard but most of the panels and glass will be coming out for repainting so better to have replacement seals on hand.
I picked up the heater box to take home and refurbish. The plan is to replace heater matrix with a PTC heater (probably be 400v so I’ll leave the wiring to the professionals).
Suggestions from Chris the upholsterer: Remove the fabric from the original Furflex and replace it with felt or suede.
English Wilton Tan looks like a good colour match for the original Mortlake brown.

Ive done the furflex replacement.
The original size for the B/C pillars is not available with the stainless steel crimping system, so I pulled my worn/faded felt off and shopped around for a good colour match at fabric shops.
just a matter of gluing the new to the old stainless and re-crimping on the door jams.
looks the dogs!!

 

[Mark B]

The car is now in the queue at the paint shop. Meanwhile battery boxes have been assembled. 2 to go in the engine bay and 2 in the boot/petrol tank space.

 

[typonaut]

Kind of wondering what is the impetus to do this? It seems like a massive amount of money to spend on a car… that's worth nowhere near the same value.

How will you handle the change from forward to reverse? Push buttons, or will you retain the old auto stick? I’ve seen a lot of stories about damaged EVs where they've mistakenly been put in the wrong gear, or the wrong pedal pressed… hello wall!

There is a retail area near me where the car park (brick) wall kept getting knocked down… One day I realised why that was happening, a BMW i3 had knowcked the wall down again and was half way across the pavement – must be people putting them in the wrong gear. With an ICE manual car, you bring on the power slowly through the clutch, and with auto ICE they creep a little, so you're usally starting them off holding the foot brake on… but electric, no creep, just full power… I expect they ae quite expensive to insure.

They have put a crash barrier up in front of the wall now.

Did you decide not to use the existing gearbox, or was that just not an option? There was a firm around London Bridge doing conversions of older cars, but they all seemed to be using the original transmission with a bolt-on electric motor. I seem to recall them saying that they only ever put a car in 3rd, or reverse.

While I think we will have ICE cars for many years to come, it is possible that it will start getting more difficult to buy fuel, or that will become increasingly expensive. There is also the chance that the exemptions for historic cars could disappear, and we could be faced with the charges (or even bans) that older cars face that aren't in the historic category and don't meet the emissions standard (euro 4/6).

Personally I wouldn't do it, unless I had a car that was completely unecconomical to repair (engine/gearbox) and was pretty much mint cosmetically – which I think is a rare combination indeed.

 

[Kevanch]

Out of morbid curiosity I asked one of these conversion specialists in South Australia. As it turned out he knew and loved the P6B and advised as a minimum $125k but likely closer to $150k.

AU$ 150k to wreck a classic? Why? EVs are a solution trying to find a problem. What is the ROI on this? I would think decades.

 

[MrC]

AU$ 150k to wreck a classic? Why? EVs are a solution trying to find a problem. What is the ROI on this? I would think decades.

It wouldn't be for me at all but I can appreciate that different people have differing opinions and wants. An EV would have pretty well no ongoing maintenance, better performance and no reliance on poor quality pattern or unobtainable NOS parts. EVs are less likely to suffer from low usage patterns and reliance on fuel additives etc (not specifically thinking Rovers here) and they're just get in and go - no wondering if it'll start after a winter lay-up etc. Yes you'd lose some of the dynamic stuff but if all you do is take your classic out for an occasional cruise and simply aren't fussed about the mechanical side then I can see the attraction. There's a few companies in the UK offering classic EV conversions - eg Electric Classic Cars - so the demand must be there.

 

[sdibbers]

AU$ 150k to wreck a classic? Why? EVs are a solution trying to find a problem. What is the ROI on this? I would think decades.

I think it’s fine. It’s his car, you’ll never have a ROI on a P6 sadly. I like he’s trying something different and adventurous.

I mean, I’ve done things to my car that a few people might have problems with, but it’s sort of a ‘what if’ exploration. Personally I like he’s trying what is a very challenging EV conversion (I know, I’ve designed and engineered kits for larger cars in the past and I’m impressed he’s found space for the batteries).

 

[mikecoombs]

I often wonder how long the cooling system stays on on an EV. Normally its 24/7 to keep the battery under control. not quite the get in and go as advertised if you forget to plug it in at home...Maintenance is much the same as a petrol or diesel car. The engine is a minor part of service these days and other things like brakes are much bigger and wear much faster.

I do like the idea of an electric P6 though. I've dreamt about a 2000TC with an Entz transmission in the past....and thinking of putting an electric motor and batteries in my series 2 LR via the PTO output...

 

[MrC]

Maintenance is much the same as a petrol or diesel car. The engine is a minor part of service these days and other things like brakes are much bigger and wear much faster.

Not sure if this holds for a classic car and even on a modern ICE car with ever increasing emissions complexity you're looking at a increasing maintenance overhead - think wet belts, narrow chains, carbon build up in DPFs and intake valves, etc, many needing maintenance quite early in the engine's life cycle. EVs by contrast require much less maintenance and even things like brakes require less work because of dynamic braking. Tyres are probably the biggest maintenance cost of an EV because of greater weight & in many cases greater torque.

 

[mikecoombs]

Have a look at the disc size on an EV. They're huge and require frequent pad changes. They're also fullpower brakes not just boosted. The motors are also complex and geared heavily, they aren't a simple electric motor any more. Cooling system is the same as an air conditioning system but much bigger to deal with battery heat. The mechanical complexity is just replaced by electical complexity. They are also VERY heavy. im not sure where they are disposed of in UK but out here we have an ever expanding field of wrecks which have been written off as to dangerous to approach and they are stored with a minimum distance of twenty feet apart for safety...in case one bursts into flame.

They do have there good points though. I just don't think simplicity is one of them.

 

[mikecoombs]

Mark
Have you thought of putting an air con core into the heater core space? I think they make/made them in a block design which fits. see the 2000 manual air con pages for the delany galley system or check with Vintage Air.
M

 

[MrC]

Have a look at the disc size on an EV. They're huge and require frequent pad changes

They only require frequent pad changes if you don't use the dynamic brake. Conversely if you use the dynamic brake as intended (which most would) they can suffer from under-use over a long period of time and there's a few tales of them suffering with seized brakes especially if you live somewhere where the roads are salted. As for their size the brakes well yes they need to be big enough to handle full braking with all that weight when the dynamic brake isn't available or not used. But they're of an equivalent size to a big SUV.

EVs certainly aren't a panacea but they can tick a lot of boxes for a lot of people. When the time eventually comes to replace our main car we'll certainly consider one either new or 2nd hand.

 

[Mark B]

Kind of wondering what is the impetus to do this? It seems like a massive amount of money to spend on a car… that's worth nowhere near the same value.

How will you handle the change from forward to reverse? Push buttons, or will you retain the old auto stick? I’ve seen a lot of stories about damaged EVs where they've mistakenly been put in the wrong gear, or the wrong pedal pressed… hello wall!

There is a retail area near me where the car park (brick) wall kept getting knocked down… One day I realised why that was happening, a BMW i3 had knowcked the wall down again and was half way across the pavement – must be people putting them in the wrong gear. With an ICE manual car, you bring on the power slowly through the clutch, and with auto ICE they creep a little, so you're usally starting them off holding the foot brake on… but electric, no creep, just full power… I expect they ae quite expensive to insure.

They have put a crash barrier up in front of the wall now.

Did you decide not to use the existing gearbox, or was that just not an option? There was a firm around London Bridge doing conversions of older cars, but they all seemed to be using the original transmission with a bolt-on electric motor. I seem to recall them saying that they only ever put a car in 3rd, or reverse.

While I think we will have ICE cars for many years to come, it is possible that it will start getting more difficult to buy fuel, or that will become increasingly expensive. There is also the chance that the exemptions for historic cars could disappear, and we could be faced with the charges (or even bans) that older cars face that aren't in the historic category and don't meet the emissions standard (euro 4/6).

Personally I wouldn't do it, unless I had a car that was completely unecconomical to repair (engine/gearbox) and was pretty much mint cosmetically – which I think is a rare combination indeed.

I’ve had the car for 30 years. I don’t see car restoration as an economic proposition but I had the money and wanted to keep it as a reliable daily drive. It’s an auto so needed a different solution to just connecting electric motor to gearbox. This will be a Lexus hybrid transmission which has 2 forward gears. Keeping the shifter for park, forward, reverse. Gear selection between low and high ratio will be automatic. Last time I posted I was waiting in the queue at the paint shop. It’s still in the queue. Supposed to be finished next week.

 

[Mark B]

Mark
Have you thought of putting an air con core into the heater core space? I think they make/made them in a block design which fits. see the 2000 manual air con pages for the delany galley system or check with Vintage Air.
M

I thought about it. It would be a really elegant solution. The space seems a bit tight and also needs to fit a PTC heater

 

[mikecoombs]

If you use the valving from a reverse cycle window rattler (possibly also the core) you'd get both heating and cooling with the added advantage of more heat for less energy usage. Downside is demisting will either be hot or cold, not both like the factory setup (cold dries the air then heat warms it back up so you don't freeze in winter)
M

 

[Mark B]

Moving ahead with painting. Should be done by next week. The obvious question is why are the guards, rails and quarter panels still on but based on his other work I think it is still going to be a quality inside/outside respray job. How far to go and how much to spend? I didn’t even enquire how much for bare metal. At least the front and rear decks and valance panels are off.