Waterless Coolant
- Thread starter 6Bcygnet
- Start date
There are certainly products around in the UK which act as wetting agents to improve the contact between the water and the engine and radiator surfaces. These are undoubtedly a good idea and increase the available cooling capacity.
If I understand waterless coolant correctly, it's primary "benefit" is to raise the boiling point of the coolant so as to allow higher temperatures to be run in the engine. That definitely is NOT a good idea for the Rover V8. The design of the internal passages in the engine is not precise enough to eliminate local hot spots which are substantially hotter than the general run of coolant temperature. Raising the overall temperature level merely elevates these hot spots further and arguably into dangerous territory. This is exactly the problem experienced by Land Rover in running the 4.0 and 4.6 engines much hotter than the P6B in the P38 Range Rover. Fine if everything is absolutely 100%, a rapid transition to cooked engine if anything is less than perfect.
Ultimately, the best possible upgrade to the cooling system is to have the radiator re-cored with a three row core. That eliminates all known P6B cooling difficulties!
Chris
If I understand waterless coolant correctly, it's primary "benefit" is to raise the boiling point of the coolant so as to allow higher temperatures to be run in the engine. That definitely is NOT a good idea for the Rover V8. The design of the internal passages in the engine is not precise enough to eliminate local hot spots which are substantially hotter than the general run of coolant temperature. Raising the overall temperature level merely elevates these hot spots further and arguably into dangerous territory. This is exactly the problem experienced by Land Rover in running the 4.0 and 4.6 engines much hotter than the P6B in the P38 Range Rover. Fine if everything is absolutely 100%, a rapid transition to cooked engine if anything is less than perfect.
Ultimately, the best possible upgrade to the cooling system is to have the radiator re-cored with a three row core. That eliminates all known P6B cooling difficulties!
Chris
6Bcygnet
Member
Thankyou for your comments.
I read an article/ad. in Practical Classics magazine about Evans Waterless coolant and wondered if there were any major advantages in using it.
I don't have overheating problems in my P6B and change the coolant regularly. (every three years) although this week I am going over to Penrite coolant as they claim a safe four year period.
Not a particularly difficult or expensive business.
In Tasmania we need the coolant mainly for it's anticorrosion properties rather than that of an antifreeze.
Mark you we do have some chilly areas too.
I was just curious.
I read an article/ad. in Practical Classics magazine about Evans Waterless coolant and wondered if there were any major advantages in using it.
I don't have overheating problems in my P6B and change the coolant regularly. (every three years) although this week I am going over to Penrite coolant as they claim a safe four year period.
Not a particularly difficult or expensive business.
In Tasmania we need the coolant mainly for it's anticorrosion properties rather than that of an antifreeze.
Mark you we do have some chilly areas too.
I was just curious.
Pilkie
Active Member
As I understand it,yes the boiling point of the product is higher than water,,but it will not make the engine run hotter!
When it gets to 88 the thermostat will open as normal,and there is less expansion due to the boiling point being higher.
Running an engine at anything more or less than manufactures spec isnt a good idea for economy or wear and tear anyway.
However,as Chris says it can be used to let an engine run hotter without boiling,if your application warrants it,but you will need to fit a higher temp thermostat!!
As we dont need to run high temps,only 82s-88w,theres no problem.
Also the rust inhibiting,ally protecting and freeze protection qualities are better than plain water/AF mix.
There are a few products on the market,and some are not good for ally engines or old engines in general,"With OAT",and can affect old rubber components,gaskets and solder joints.
Check the spec and claims of the product you are thinking of using!
I did use some red long life waterless stuff in the TR6 for a while,and it worked well,but when a hose split due to wear and tear"???",it made a HELL of a mess that I am still cleaning up 2 yrs later!
It was probably due to its unsuitability for classics and old style engine specs.
Personally,I use good old fashioned water and bluecol a/f in my classics!,and buy it by the gall when I can.
Have a read of these,and decide for yourself whats best!!
http://www.evanscoolant.co.uk/acatalog/Learn-More.html
and
http://www.v8register.net/FilesV8WN/Con ... 090310.pdf
When it gets to 88 the thermostat will open as normal,and there is less expansion due to the boiling point being higher.
Running an engine at anything more or less than manufactures spec isnt a good idea for economy or wear and tear anyway.
However,as Chris says it can be used to let an engine run hotter without boiling,if your application warrants it,but you will need to fit a higher temp thermostat!!
As we dont need to run high temps,only 82s-88w,theres no problem.
Also the rust inhibiting,ally protecting and freeze protection qualities are better than plain water/AF mix.
There are a few products on the market,and some are not good for ally engines or old engines in general,"With OAT",and can affect old rubber components,gaskets and solder joints.
Check the spec and claims of the product you are thinking of using!
I did use some red long life waterless stuff in the TR6 for a while,and it worked well,but when a hose split due to wear and tear"???",it made a HELL of a mess that I am still cleaning up 2 yrs later!
It was probably due to its unsuitability for classics and old style engine specs.
Personally,I use good old fashioned water and bluecol a/f in my classics!,and buy it by the gall when I can.
Have a read of these,and decide for yourself whats best!!
http://www.evanscoolant.co.uk/acatalog/Learn-More.html
and
http://www.v8register.net/FilesV8WN/Con ... 090310.pdf
Richard Moss
New Member
As Pilkie says, the point is not to raise the temperature of the coolant but to prevent it from boiling by raising its boiling point. Therefore, where you DO get those hot spots, the coolant stays liquid rather than turning into vapour - which would cause the pressure cap to release the pressure and blow out liquid. the fact of using waterless coolant should have no effect upon the actual coolant temperature, just help to keep more of it inside the system.
A typical coolant with anti boil characteristics usually has its boiling point raised by approx 4 degrees C when used in a 33% mix. My understanding is that this is the temperature that would be required if you were to heat the coolant in an open vessel at sea level at normal atmospheric pressure.
In the Rover's cooling system, or indeed in any car's cooling system, the system is sealed so that as the temperature of the coolant increases, so the pressure within the system increases, this being a result of the thermal expansion of the water or coolant. It is this pressure increase which prevents the coolant from boiling, as in order to boil there must be rapid expansion as the coolant changes state from liquid to gas, and this cannot occur in a sealed pressurised system.
If you were to remove the radiator cap when the system is at its normal operating temperature, the pressure differential would see the coolant forced out and it would boil rapidly being no longer captive within the closed cooling system.
That is why it is not a good idea to run the engine up to temperature with the radiator cap removed, as the coolant can boil within the cylinder heads adjacent to the exhaust valves, but this won't happen when the cap is on and the system is under pressure.
Ron.
In the Rover's cooling system, or indeed in any car's cooling system, the system is sealed so that as the temperature of the coolant increases, so the pressure within the system increases, this being a result of the thermal expansion of the water or coolant. It is this pressure increase which prevents the coolant from boiling, as in order to boil there must be rapid expansion as the coolant changes state from liquid to gas, and this cannot occur in a sealed pressurised system.
If you were to remove the radiator cap when the system is at its normal operating temperature, the pressure differential would see the coolant forced out and it would boil rapidly being no longer captive within the closed cooling system.
That is why it is not a good idea to run the engine up to temperature with the radiator cap removed, as the coolant can boil within the cylinder heads adjacent to the exhaust valves, but this won't happen when the cap is on and the system is under pressure.
Ron.