Advice for steering idler removal

M

macdonj

New Member
Kingsdown has identified that the steering idler bush is badly worn possibly leading to the metal on metal clonk that comes with steering or suspension movement. I've bought a scond hand unit from them that is leak free and provides good resistance to movement - no spare recon ones available and also some bad experience with recon idlers leaking.

I'm having trouble getting a ball-joint splitter onto the inner ball joint from the idler to the rod that links to the steering box.

I have all three types of splitter: fork, cup and scissors.

The cup is good for restricted space but the fork end is too thick to slip under the ball joint. I was thinking of grinding it down to allow it too fit although there is a risk it will bend.

Someone on the forum used a combination of leverage and a sideways tap to release a steering joint taper but I'm a little nervous of that one.

Is there any advice for removal of this and the other joint to allow me to replace the idler? Also should I try to replace the rubber cover on the joints if they are available?

Thanks again.

John Macdonald
 
i found that if you first undo the bolts which hold the idler to the body you can get the cup type splitter on with ease.tighten the splitter as much as you can then leave it for a bit and it will suddenly release with a bang or to speed things up apply some heat.Always replace the joint covers if in any doubt.
steve
 
Thanks for advice. The idler did eventually come off but when tested was found to be OK. Instead I renewed both side rods and the track rod (auto type with single adjuster). I tightened the idler down hard. The tracking was checked. the steering now feels just about the same but I feel better about it.

It hasn't cured the occasional metal on metal knocking that occurs with body/steering movement. There is no exhaust pipe impact and the knocking is not influenced by the engine revs or driveline smoothness. Would the rear gearbox snubber affect such a noise?

Thanks
John Macdonald
 
Hi John, looks like you've found somewhere else it's not worth going for P6 repairs, they diagnose a faulty idler, sell you a second hand one and then you find there's nothing wrong with it in the first place. All around a class act.
 
Hi John,

Probably sounds stupid but have you made sure that the four bolts that hold the idler to the bracket are tight? also the bracket to the body.

I had a car with an mot advisory of a knock in steering. The bolts weren't tight enough and this led to a clunk every so often especially on full lock.

I would double check these are ok, may also be worth while poking with a screw driver incase there is any corrosion hidden that may be allowing the idler to move.

Colin
 
Colin,

Thanks for reply. There doesn't seem to be any torque settings for either the idler/bracket bolts and the bracket to body bolts. I thought I had tightened them quite a bit even using an extension tube on the T bar but was nervous of shearing them from overload. How much is tight enough? I've driven in to work this morning and there's definitely a louder noise from the steering in both directions. I guess I could find the overload torque for this size of bolt and tighten up to 10% below this level. I took the idler off and looked at the body mounting on the wing and it looked pretty solid. I will re-check the bolts.

Is it likley that the steering links foul the body somewhere particularly the track rod?

I guess these frustrations are typically for the first few years.

By the way Kingsdown refunded the money on the idler and did me a good deal on exchange front seats. They also spotted a rear caliper that wasn't ratcheting properly. To be fair I would need to let them have the car for a longer time (not an hour Sat morning as before) to get a more detailed diagnosis.

Thanks

John Macdonald
 
After a lot of effort I've finally traced the clonk from the front to a loose steering idler - what everyone said it would be in the first place!

I have S rated 3/8 UNF bolts and I torqued them down on the idler (bracket to body) to 45Lb/ft and the noise was eliminated for the first time ever but not for long as it returned. I aso tightened the idler to bracket but not as tight.

I have calculated that without lubricant that BS1768 S rated bolts (steel-steel) should have a maximum torque of 65lb/ft for 70% of proof. As a comparison the same bolt used in an Escort Mk2 steering rack is torqued to 20lb/ft.

Can anyone advise of the correct bolt material rating and torque to secure the idler to the bracket and the bracket to the inner wing?

Thanks
John Macdonald
 
My experience of Kingsdown and the famous/infamous Colin has always been good. I'd trust him with any P6 malady and his diagnosis. Whenever I've bought stuff from him he charges a fair price. If you want to see some of his finished work, ask to see the 'showroom' lockup next to the garage, his guys know their stuff and it shows in there.

Coincidentally, my P6 developed a nasty rattle through the steering column over rough surfaces (rippled concrete especially) this weekend and I thought either the steering box or the idler might have come loose.

The steering box was fine and I checked all the linkage bushes which were fine, I'm not aware of any combination of turn of the steering wheel that would foul the linkages though.

The bolts that mount the idler on the bracket are fixed by four 9/16'' bolts which I torqued to 45lb/ft giving me about a 1/4 turn from their previous position. The bolt at the bottom closest to the bulkhead is a bugger to reach with a socket set so I had to guestimate it with an ordinary spanner with just a 1/4 turn though.

Hey presto... the rattle had gone on a test drive over a very bumpy b-road near me. I was amazed what a difference a tiny adjustment would make though.

Again, it was the bolts mounting the idler to the bracket the bolts mounting the bracket to the bulkhead were rock solid.

The workshop manual mentions an oil top up plug on the steering box but not the grade of oil to use. I assume some EP90 (same as the diff) would be alright?.
 
Rovertron,

Thanks for reply and I will tighten the idler-bracket bolts to 45lbft. I will continue to use Kingsdown.

Does anyone have a torque setting for the idler bracket to body bolts?

Thanks

John Macdonald
 
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