Shock Absorbers
- Thread starter Guy Engelsman
- Start date
ghce
Well-Known Member
Chris I know the feeling, as you say in your youth it was like a wet sponge lol, when I had mine in my late mid to late 20's I never noticed the the defficiencies too much as this is a car that you take the time to enjoy the scenary in, if I wanted fast driving action I had other far more sportier cars to drive but it is still nice to know that when you do want push the legal limits that it will do so safely.
There is a local car here for sale which has had the Rover 3.5 changed for a much bigger GM beast, the owner has installed a substantial 1 inch plus sway bar put in much firmer springs and done a lot of playing with shocks and spring rates the up shot is that this thing corners like its on a railway track esp at high speed the down side is that the ride is somewhat firmer but still well in the acceptable comfort zone. Troble is you dont own a Rover for pure performance but just pure pleasure!
If I want performance hadling and power I drive this other car of mine
Graeme
There is a local car here for sale which has had the Rover 3.5 changed for a much bigger GM beast, the owner has installed a substantial 1 inch plus sway bar put in much firmer springs and done a lot of playing with shocks and spring rates the up shot is that this thing corners like its on a railway track esp at high speed the down side is that the ride is somewhat firmer but still well in the acceptable comfort zone. Troble is you dont own a Rover for pure performance but just pure pleasure!
If I want performance hadling and power I drive this other car of mine
Graeme
Hello Dave,
If the shock absorbers from the rear have been removed, then pushing on the bumper will move the body downwards rather easily. So in that regard, I would be more inclined to suggest that the shocks may be the culprit.
If the shocks are on the way out, pushing down on the car and then releasing will see a tendancy to float up and down a couple of times before settling.
What brand of shocks are fitted? Have they been there for long?
Ron.
If the shock absorbers from the rear have been removed, then pushing on the bumper will move the body downwards rather easily. So in that regard, I would be more inclined to suggest that the shocks may be the culprit.
If the shocks are on the way out, pushing down on the car and then releasing will see a tendancy to float up and down a couple of times before settling.
What brand of shocks are fitted? Have they been there for long?
Ron.
Tor
Well-Known Member
Congratulations Jukka. How does it drive?
My 'S' needs new springs and maybe new rear shockers too. The old ones are Koni Classic non-adjustables and the rear end floats up and down before settling. The spring is so shot I can bottom it out by bearing down on it alone. No idea how old the Konis are, maybe pre-1995. The car hasn't covered a lot of kms over the years. Can these shocks perish???
My 'S' needs new springs and maybe new rear shockers too. The old ones are Koni Classic non-adjustables and the rear end floats up and down before settling. The spring is so shot I can bottom it out by bearing down on it alone. No idea how old the Konis are, maybe pre-1995. The car hasn't covered a lot of kms over the years. Can these shocks perish???
Hi Tor.
Koni Classics ARE adjustable - but you have to take them off the car to do it! It's done by rotating the body and you can see the score by looking dow from the top. Not very helpful!
Now that Lucky is on the road I can report the effect of the staged wheel and suspension mods. Springs are standard and in good nick - ie rears at close to correct ride height.
The first surprise was that fitting the 205/65 X 15 Pirelli P6000's alone made a huge difference to the handling - as well as the obvious change to grip! Turn in was much improved and the manual steering was actually lighter than on standard tyres. I can only put this down to the lower profile giving a stiffer sidewall and reducing tyre roll. Roundabouts were still somewhat ponderous compared to a modern car though. I confirmed that handling balance once turned in - ie in a long fast corner - was completely and delightfully neutral.
I then further fitted one of Alan's (Classeparts) uprated front anti roll bars, together with a set of Koni Classics to the rear on max setting and a set of new original Rover Heavy Duty or Police Spec front dampers. Again a further transformation. Turn in is now as good as a modern hatch and the car can be hustled through roundabouts with the best of them. Roll is still present, but for my money, about right for a modern road car. Any susceptability to float over long undulations at speed is completely eliminated. The big surprise is that handling balance in those long fast corners is unaffected and still completely neutral. This is counter theory as it should have taken a set of mildly uprated rear springs to restore this from mild understeer induced by the new front roll bar.
I still haven't got my head round why this should be. The best theory I've come up with to date is that the roll bar limits camber change at the front end and therefore the outside front wheel is running less negative camber than previously and is providing slightly more grip (The P6B has inherrent excessive front camber change in compression thanks to the wider chassis rails and shorter bottom links). This then compensates for the comparitive roll stiffness induced understeer? Anybody else any ideas?
The basic ride is of course unaffected, but surface irregularities are definitely more felt. The ride has become slightly "jiggly" at low speed. So I can see why Rover didn't fit this standard of damping as standard. But it suits me perfectly. Others might prefer adjustables all round on a slightly softer setting.
Overall a result!
Chris
Koni Classics ARE adjustable - but you have to take them off the car to do it! It's done by rotating the body and you can see the score by looking dow from the top. Not very helpful!
Now that Lucky is on the road I can report the effect of the staged wheel and suspension mods. Springs are standard and in good nick - ie rears at close to correct ride height.
The first surprise was that fitting the 205/65 X 15 Pirelli P6000's alone made a huge difference to the handling - as well as the obvious change to grip! Turn in was much improved and the manual steering was actually lighter than on standard tyres. I can only put this down to the lower profile giving a stiffer sidewall and reducing tyre roll. Roundabouts were still somewhat ponderous compared to a modern car though. I confirmed that handling balance once turned in - ie in a long fast corner - was completely and delightfully neutral.
I then further fitted one of Alan's (Classeparts) uprated front anti roll bars, together with a set of Koni Classics to the rear on max setting and a set of new original Rover Heavy Duty or Police Spec front dampers. Again a further transformation. Turn in is now as good as a modern hatch and the car can be hustled through roundabouts with the best of them. Roll is still present, but for my money, about right for a modern road car. Any susceptability to float over long undulations at speed is completely eliminated. The big surprise is that handling balance in those long fast corners is unaffected and still completely neutral. This is counter theory as it should have taken a set of mildly uprated rear springs to restore this from mild understeer induced by the new front roll bar.
I still haven't got my head round why this should be. The best theory I've come up with to date is that the roll bar limits camber change at the front end and therefore the outside front wheel is running less negative camber than previously and is providing slightly more grip (The P6B has inherrent excessive front camber change in compression thanks to the wider chassis rails and shorter bottom links). This then compensates for the comparitive roll stiffness induced understeer? Anybody else any ideas?
The basic ride is of course unaffected, but surface irregularities are definitely more felt. The ride has become slightly "jiggly" at low speed. So I can see why Rover didn't fit this standard of damping as standard. But it suits me perfectly. Others might prefer adjustables all round on a slightly softer setting.
Overall a result!
Chris
Tor
Well-Known Member
Cheers Chris, you might just have saved me from wasting cash on new adjustables there... 
What springs does Lucky have front/rear? Ref. what you say about camber changes under load, am I right in thinking that having the correct ride height (= good springs) in front will help keep correct camber, as much as good top link bushes might? I have a theory you could probably get a desireable combination of sportiness and comfort by running a good set of higher profile 14" tyres with all your mods and have less feedback (and noise!) from uneven surfaces.
A fellow Rover owner locally also uses Pirellis I think, on Vitesse rims, using those mainly for long hauls (e.g. to Italy, 1100 miles each way) and says the car is 'almost sporting'. I think he has stock shockers, progressive rear springs, tried HD ones but hated them. Says police cars benefited only due to severe extra weight from radio gear in the boot, back seat occupants regularly, and the need to throw the car about...
I think a lot of P6 owners drive around on arbitrary tyres after hearing the rubber shop can't provide desired-brand ones for 14" rims. If my local suppliers don't stock them, I seem able to order from most manufacturers - Vredestein, Michelin and so on. My old car came with Ohtsu (Japanese) 185Rs, for unknown reasons, which feel like driving on Hardura and awful. I later tried on some Rostyles that came with Cooper M+S white-sides - better but still awful. The new car has Hercules tyres, which seem passable. Anyway...
I'm in touch with a springs manufacturer for the rears for the 'S' and have a question about the nature of progressive action so that I can order just what I should have. All I need is for the car not to bottom out. I read in a different thread how PAS equipped manual V8s have the firmest factory suspension setup, followed by PAS auto, non-PAS 'S', non-PAS auto. In terms of springs, how can I specify the order? What I have are the factory specs for the B-suffix auto 1974- and 3500S 71-76.
What springs does Lucky have front/rear? Ref. what you say about camber changes under load, am I right in thinking that having the correct ride height (= good springs) in front will help keep correct camber, as much as good top link bushes might? I have a theory you could probably get a desireable combination of sportiness and comfort by running a good set of higher profile 14" tyres with all your mods and have less feedback (and noise!) from uneven surfaces.
A fellow Rover owner locally also uses Pirellis I think, on Vitesse rims, using those mainly for long hauls (e.g. to Italy, 1100 miles each way) and says the car is 'almost sporting'. I think he has stock shockers, progressive rear springs, tried HD ones but hated them. Says police cars benefited only due to severe extra weight from radio gear in the boot, back seat occupants regularly, and the need to throw the car about...
I think a lot of P6 owners drive around on arbitrary tyres after hearing the rubber shop can't provide desired-brand ones for 14" rims. If my local suppliers don't stock them, I seem able to order from most manufacturers - Vredestein, Michelin and so on. My old car came with Ohtsu (Japanese) 185Rs, for unknown reasons, which feel like driving on Hardura and awful. I later tried on some Rostyles that came with Cooper M+S white-sides - better but still awful. The new car has Hercules tyres, which seem passable. Anyway...
I'm in touch with a springs manufacturer for the rears for the 'S' and have a question about the nature of progressive action so that I can order just what I should have. All I need is for the car not to bottom out. I read in a different thread how PAS equipped manual V8s have the firmest factory suspension setup, followed by PAS auto, non-PAS 'S', non-PAS auto. In terms of springs, how can I specify the order? What I have are the factory specs for the B-suffix auto 1974- and 3500S 71-76.
OK; Lucky runs standard but close to original spec ride height - ie in good nick - springs front and rear. The tyres are high speed rated (can't remember the designation offhand - VR?) Pirelli P6000 Powergy 205/65 X 15 on 15" Vitesse rims.
The variation in factory spring spec, as I recall, is only for the front springs and reflects marginal variations in front end weight due to the different engine bay equipments.
At the rear, the P6 allready has some degree of variable rate. The rubber bump stops are very large and come into play relatively early in the suspension travel. So it is very important to fit a new set! As I explained earlier in this thread, I personally would avoid progressive rear springs. They are great for anyone who drives in a restrained manner but sometimes carries big loads. For those of us who use the cars huge cornering potential, I'd be extremely nervous of getting them very wrong. I really don't think you need to uprate the rear springs to liberate the potential of the car. Only if (like the police spec cars) you regularely carry rear seat passengers or loads in the boot would i be tempted to go for a - say - 25% higher rate with the same ride height.
There's plenty of compliance in 65 profile 205's. The P6000 is a notably quiet running tyre, which is one of the reasons I like it. So no issues with noise or vibration from the tyres. And with adjustable dampers you can tune them to a compromise your happy with. My comments about "jiggliness" really only move the car to a similar point to most modern (comfy) cars. I wouldn't want to go for a higher profile tyre because of the increase in tyre roll on the rim leading to a poorer turn in, which is after all the P6 weak point we're trying to address.
Hope that helps your thought process!
Chris
The variation in factory spring spec, as I recall, is only for the front springs and reflects marginal variations in front end weight due to the different engine bay equipments.
At the rear, the P6 allready has some degree of variable rate. The rubber bump stops are very large and come into play relatively early in the suspension travel. So it is very important to fit a new set! As I explained earlier in this thread, I personally would avoid progressive rear springs. They are great for anyone who drives in a restrained manner but sometimes carries big loads. For those of us who use the cars huge cornering potential, I'd be extremely nervous of getting them very wrong. I really don't think you need to uprate the rear springs to liberate the potential of the car. Only if (like the police spec cars) you regularely carry rear seat passengers or loads in the boot would i be tempted to go for a - say - 25% higher rate with the same ride height.
There's plenty of compliance in 65 profile 205's. The P6000 is a notably quiet running tyre, which is one of the reasons I like it. So no issues with noise or vibration from the tyres. And with adjustable dampers you can tune them to a compromise your happy with. My comments about "jiggliness" really only move the car to a similar point to most modern (comfy) cars. I wouldn't want to go for a higher profile tyre because of the increase in tyre roll on the rim leading to a poorer turn in, which is after all the P6 weak point we're trying to address.
Hope that helps your thought process!
Chris
Tor
Well-Known Member
Thanks once again Chris. Sounds good, I'll chat with the fabricator, who is apparently a legend in his field, to get them right. I've also noted what you say about the P6000s being fairly quiet...
I'll be interested to see the state of the shockers when I pull them off along with the old springs. Hope the very saggy left spring hasn't made the shockers wear unevenly - somehow - and that I can adjust them well.
I'll be interested to see the state of the shockers when I pull them off along with the old springs. Hope the very saggy left spring hasn't made the shockers wear unevenly - somehow - and that I can adjust them well.
Tor,in my opinion those avo absorbers are good.I have never driven other P6 so i can not say anything but the garage guy who has built this P6 says it is very good for a p6 For tyres if i remember right i have a 205/65 15 BFG profilers with compomotive wheels.
Rgds:Jukka
RR92 Westminster 4.6
-73 Rover P6 3500Si
For tyres if i remember right i have a 205/65 15 BFG profilers with compomotive wheels.Rgds:Jukka
RR92 Westminster 4.6
-73 Rover P6 3500Si