Vehicle build plate info

westOz74P6B

westOz74P6B

Member
I have just purchased a parts/doner P6B and the Australian compliance plate states 2/76 and there is a number plate below the vin No, which reads HP 1883.12.75, Am I right then in thinking that the latter is the UK build date indicating 12th month of 1975 (don't know what the HP 1883 means) and the Aussie compliance plate would have the date of when the Australian compliance plate was fitted 2nd month of 1976, thanks in advance.
 
Unlikely to be UK built, especially at that date. Most likely either Australian or more likely New Zealand from a CKD kit.

Chris
 
thanks Chris, its just that I was wondering if the 2 to 3 month difference between the two dates was the shipping duration from UK until the aussie compliance was affixed as my 74 has a similar (2 month) discrepency. And do I take it that you have a ZF gearbox fitted to your P6? Auto? 4 speed? cause I was thinking about what auto box could be fitted (as a project) as an alternative to the 3 speed auto. a 4 speed overdrive there is in my 93 Starwagon, just got me thinking if there was a suitable one to fit to the 3500 motor, heard of any? thanks in advence,

Regards,
 
According to Rudicker Wicke's P6 info website my vin numbers (as below extract) 453 etc etc, refer to CKD kits which were more than likely assembled in New Zealand (as they have NZ standards etching on all the glass) and then shipped to Australia (unless P6's were assembled in Australia, which I'm pretty sure they were'nt unless otherwise corrected) so i can take it that my 2nd of 76 aussie compliance plate is the true build date more than likely assembled in NZ. I noticed (compared to the 74 P6) that it has the emmision control fitted, electric fuel pump, and proper front crankshaft oil seal fitment on the timing cover (cast and machined accordingly) and heated rear window. It also had air con fitted (not working now) which the inside unit nessesitated the relocation of the choke, fuel reserve, and left hand side heater controls.


3500 V8 Series 2 1971 - 1976
451 Home Market RHD
452 Export RHD
453 CKD RHD
454 Export LHD
455 CKD LHD
 
That all sounds right. The spec you give to matches to the last series of P6's shipped to NZ after the cessation of large scale prouction in the UK (although ones and twos continued to be made on the mothballed UK line for a surprisingly long time after SD1 production started). P6's were assembled in South Africa, New Zealand and Australia on a large scale. There were a number of other small scale assembly locations as well of which little is known - Greece springs to mind as one of them Demetris! Assembly in Australia and South Africa ceased around the time of the introduction of the SD1; but SD1 CKD kits were intially not available, so further P6 kits were put together and assembled in New Zealand to satisfy both Australian and New Zealand Rover dealers. The same problem didn't arise in South Africa as all BL cars were sold under a single dealership, so Triumphs, Jags and Rovers sold from the same premises. Perhaps it was a relief to the dealer not to have to stock so many cars with such similar clients!

Chris
 
from looking at the BMC Australia web site they seemed to have not assembled P6's or any other Rover for that matter, it looks like all were assembled in NZ and shipped to Australia for sale, as BMC Australia (and later Leyland Australia) concentrated on Aussie versions of BMC models and their own attempt (P76) at a rival to the big 3 (see, http://technispec.com/bmc/index2.htm ) and I'm waiting to recieve a copy of "Assembly: New Zealand Car Production 1921-98" by Mark Webster which looks to be interesting reading. The ARonline website mentions that in 1976 "The last 70 Rovers for Australia were shipped from Nelson. Between 1971 and 31 March 1976 2,400 Rovers had been exported (from NZ) at a total value of NZ$8million."

Regards,
 
The P76 wasn't really an Australian car although there was some Australian input. It was engineered in the old BMC Special Tuning set up at Abingdon under the supervision of Rover's David Bache. There is a combination of evidence and circumstantial coincidence to suggest that it carried a lightly modified P8 floorpan and that the doors may have been pure P8. This would have been a sensible economy measure as P8 tooling was fully production ready at time of cancellation. There is considerable dispute about the origin of the V8 engine. Australian sources are adamant that it was developed in Oz, UK that it is a straight transfer of the P8 engine. Perhaps it was a combination of the two? The Force 7 P76 Coupe however is pure David Bache, a clear copy of "Gladys", the 1967 P6 coupe that had been intended as an Alvis. Front light treatment is also clearly related to P7 and Gladys.

While it is true that New Zealand assembled P6's were sold in Australia, not just from the final batches but from the inception of the S2 models, I'm sure I've read detail of P6's assembly in Australia as well. Pre war Rovers actually carried Australian made bodies. Unfortunately I've lost where I put my source material in my recent house move so I'm going to have to defer until I get to the right packing box!! Note this is nothing to do with the BMC / Leyland Australia operation that made the SD1 and P76!

Chris
 
To maximise the number of P6 base units sent from the United Kingdom to New Zealand per shipment, each base unit had the turret assembly complete with A to C pillars cut off level with the door tops. :shock:

By such a process, a greater quantity of base units could occupy a specific volume within the containers on the ship.

The turret assemblies were welded back onto the base units in New Zealand.

Ron.
 
thanks Ron, i've just read about the very same thing in "Assembly, New Zeland Car Production 1921 - 98" by Mark Webster, a jolly interesting read of CKD production in NZ, (is your Rover a NZ assembled car per chance?) Interesting about cutting off of the turrets, a pity there wasn't some chap on the production line who might of thought to lop a couple of inches off the turret and send a few P6B Coupes down the line! The book also states that; between May 1971 and April 1975, 1345 Rover 3500 V8's were produced (for the NZ market) and between June 1972 and October 1976, 1806 Rover 3500 V8's were made (for Australia). Also 698 V8 SD1's (tween Apr 1979 - Dec 1981) and 778, 6 cylinder (2600) SD1's.

Regards,
 
My reference files have now emerged from the packing cases of my house move. First off, my memory is definitely faulty - I can't find any specific reference to Australian assembly of CKD P6's. Land Rover's definitely were and P2 saloons were pre war. There remains a definite supicion in my mind that CKD's were assembled in Australia - but not at the BMC plant in Sydney that subsequently built SD1's, but rather at the plant that assembled the Land Rover.

It seems logical to me that S2's were likely to have been built in NZ and shipped to Australia since we know the Wellington plant did not start P6 production until '71. To put some solid information into this therefore needs a bit of help from the Australian contingent on here. Could those of you with Series ONE cars have a look at your chassis No's for me please? There are two possiblities - either assembled at Solihul and shipped complete or shipped CKD and assmbled in Australia.

If shipped complete the commission no's (the first part of the chassis no) should be 401 (2000SC), 416 (2000TC), or 426 (3500). Total build no's for these three groups together is around 5000 to cover also any other RHD export territory (Africa not South Africa and parts of Asia) which sounds rather low.

If shipped CKD the commission nos should be 402 (2000SC), 417 (2000TC), or 427 (3500).

Let us know whether your S1's are Solihull productions or CKD and we will be quite a bit further forward in this discussion. Then all we will need to find out is if any CKD S2's were assembled in Australia. The commission nos won't help us here as the no will be the same whether Australian or New Zealand assembled.

Of course if there turn out to be any New Zealand CKD S1's then perhaps we could speculate assembly in Australia and shipping to NZ...

In the course of my reading some very unlikely CKD assembly locations for the P6 came to light. Malta may be already known to a few but the August '69 issue of Rover and Alvis News reports commencement of P6 production in April '69 at the works of Amalgamated Industries in Arima Trinidad! The car shown is an S1 (obviously) but with the Federal/Swiss narrow waist trims.
 
Austin Rovers' web site, AROnline, in the "Rover in New Zealand" section, states that CKD car registrations for Rover brands assembled between 1 January and 30 June 1963 totaled 127 (can we safely say Rover Series 1 P6's??)

Having read Mark Websters' book entitled "ASSEMBLY New Zealand Car Production 1921-98" I would come to the conclusion that P6's were only assembled in NZ from CKD kits and exported to Australia, as I have yet to find any evidence of Australian P6 assembly. My chassis numbers correspond with what Rudiger Wicke states in his website for CKD R/H drive kits for export as all my window glass has NZ standards etching marks, if this is any indication of NZ assembly, and as always I stand willingly to be corrected. And as you ask Chris, it would be interesting to get other info from Aussie/Kiwi P6 owners, starting with Ron in Sydeny, eh what? Do you have similar etched glass Ron?

The following was copied from: http://www.roverklubben.se/histe.html

The New Zealand Rover story
The First Rover sold in this region of the world was from a firm Cooke Howlison Ltd. It was in 1908 and it was a Rover 8 hp sold to Doctor Fulton. There is no current knowledge of where the car is or what happened to it.
Cooke Howlison went on to become General Motors agents, beginning with Buicks and had no further links with Rover. Recently they took over the BMW franchise and when the Rover-BMW merger took place they were granted the Rover franchise as well. They are generous in their support of the club through Rover NZ.

In 1931, Frank Searle, the Chairman of the Rover Board went to New Zealand to inspect the newly opened Rover factory there. This was a factory to assemble Rover Family 10s, that was opened at Petone (Pit-tone-ee) in Wellington. It lasted only one year. The Depression was a major factor in closing the plant.
After this, Frank Searle returned to England and lived out his life at his estate, Alton Hall.

The Nelson factory was originally building Triumph 2000s and Triumph Heralds, not Rovers, when AMI shifted assembly to Nelson from Christchurch - then Rovers, then Land-Rovers.
When the company (Associated Motor Industries) was absorbed into first Leyland and then NZ Motor Corporation, it also assembled Leyland trucks and buses, then Austin Princesses and Minis, Jaguars and Daimlers!
Then NZMC got the Honda franchise, so it began assembling Honda Civics (early '80s) then Accords. But Honda ended up absorbing the NZMC plants and so the plant became a Honda plant until it closed in 1998.
I visited the site in July 2001 and interviewed people who worked on all these cars.

Thanks to: Mark Webster, deputy editor NZ Classic Car magazine

Here are the Rover figures:
Rover P6 2000 4-cylinder, April 1968 to December 1971, total 2473
Rover 3500 V8, May 1971 - April 1975, total 1345
Rover 3500 V8 (for Australia), June 1972 - October 1976, total 1806
Land-Rover 88* & 109*, February 1975 - August 1987, total 4339
Land-Rover (NZ Army specials), March 1980 - February 1984, total 630
Rover SD1 3500 V8 auto, April 1979 - December 1981, total 696
Rover SD1 2600 six-cylinder Auto, August 1979 - December 1981, total 280
Rover SD1 2600 six-cylinder Manual, August 1979 - June 1981, total 392
Figures thanks to Mark Webster and Honda NZ.


From early 1973 most of the 3500 automatics that came to Australia were assembled from completely knocked down packs in New Zealand. One fascinating piece of trivia connected with the New Zealand assembly is that the base units had their roofs cut off at waist level in the UK factory so that more bodies could be packed into containers. The roofs were subsequently welded back on in New Zealand.
The New Zealand Rovers were assembled at the Associated Motor Industries plant in Nelson. Substantial tariff reductions were possible for vehicles imported into Australia from New Zealand under the New Zealand-Australia Free Trade Agreement, but to gain the concession the cars had to meet a specified level of Australian and New Zealand content. This was achieved by using some Australian and New Zealand components and New Zealand labour.

Regards,
 
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