3500S clutch

[vaultsman]

Hi,

Having had a new clutch fitted by a competent (but non-P6 specialist) garage in May this year, I now find it's slipping again. I'm hoping this is down to pedal/linkage adjustment.

Does anyone know/have a step-by-step guide to how this is tackled? I have a good relationship with the garage that fitted it and may go back to them but I'd like to do this forearmed with instructions!

Any thoughts everyone?

 

[harveyp6]

This is not the way it tells you in the manual but....................

Pull back the carpet and underlay and set the brake pedal height between the bottom of the pedal and the floor to 6 & 7/8"
Set the clutch pedal level with the brake.
Push the clutch operating arm rearward until the release bearing touches the pressure plate and make sure the arm is one spline forward from vertical. Remove the arm and move it on the splines if it's not, and take care not to drop the nut in the bellhousing.
Pull back the slave cylinder boot. Adjust the pushrod so that the piston is about 1" away from the circlip. (Pedal at rest)
Wind the stop bolt all the way in. (Thats the one in the footwell.)
Then get someone to slowly depress the pedal as you look at the piston in the slave. What you need to get is the piston just touching the circlip when the pedal is on the stop, and you achieve this by adjusting the pushrod each time just before the pedal is depressed.
Once you get to the point that putting your foot on the clutch down to the stop makes the piston touch the circlip in the slave, lock the nut on the pushrod.
Then wind the stop bolt up one turn, and lock it with the nut.
Depress the pedal again and make sure there is at least 25thou clearance between the piston and the circlip in the slave.
If not wind the stop bolt up some more a turn at a time.
Refit the carpet and IIRC that's it.

Road test.

If it still slips I'd suspect either the release bearing sticky in the housing, or the clutch pressure plate being slow to clamp the centre plate. (That's if it only slips after you've used the clutch.) If it slips all the time, chances are the box is going to have to come out again.

If I think of anything else on setting it up I'll add it later, but I think I've got it all there.

 

[vaultsman]

Thanks Harvey,

I'll make a start on this at the weekend..weather permitting..and providing I can find/coerce/bribe a suitable assistant!

It was good to meet you on Saturday..and both cars ran fine up to Leicester.

Cheers mate!

Stan

 

[harveyp6]

Thanks Harvey, It was good to meet you on Saturday..and both cars ran fine up to Leicester.

Cheers mate!

Stan

Likewise, good to meet you, and an extra treat to see you P6B being put to good use.

Glad everthing went well on your trip back.

Now that you know where I am, anything that the p6 might need sorting, that would be worth you making the trip again, let me know and I'll get something organised for you. Hopefully it won't come to it though.

Good luck with the clutch adjustment. (And while you're doing it, make sure the flexible pipe hasn't got trapped or kinked, and the pivot on the bellcrank under the master cyl is nice and free.)

 

[vaultsman]

Doncha just love old cars! Still make me smile!

Brake pedal reset to 6.7/8"..leaving the clutch pedal at least an inch and a bit below. So..bonnet up..1/2"AF..fiddled onto the locknut flats..no chance! Locknut, clevis and pushrod decided over the last 34 years to get up close and personal!

Spring clip out (in 2 pieces)..clevis pin out (resistant b****r!)..hose clamp on the flexi,,and eventually...





So..a bit of dismantling persuasion required..and I can see you smiling Harvey!

 

[harveyp6]

Not me mate! (Snigger...)

That bellcrank and the adjustment are prone to corroding up and as you say access isn't great either.

I take it the brake pedal height is OK for you, being slightly higher than standard?

If you remove the pushrod from the cylinder you can apply some heat to get the locknut moving, then loads of Copaslip when it goes back together.

You could have tried setting up without adjusting that, but as it wasn't clearing into reverse very well you need all the movement you can get. (I heard it when you arrived...................)

I think the arm on the splines on the gearbox will be in the wrong place as well.

Here's hoping the setting up cures the problem rather than the box having to come out again.

 

[vaultsman]

Brake pedal height seems fine..had to raise it 3/8". Clutch pedal is sitting at about 5.3/8" ( :shock: ) so it needs bringing up quite a bit anyway..locknut is screwed right up to the end of the pushrod thread - which can't be right! Clevis/pushrod is getting a healthy overnight dose of penetrating oil..and will succumb to a judicious blowlamp tomorrow! And while the cylinder's out a repair kit (at least) seems sensible.

Looking underneath I think you're right about the arm position..but that's another day. Fingers crossed here too that this cures the slip.

Cheers mate, thanks again.

Stan

 

[harveyp6]

Hopefully the operating arm will be so far out on the splines that along with the pushrod being too long at the same time will have meant that the piston will have been fully back in the slave, so giving the same effect as riding the clutch pedal.

Regardless it all needs setting up properly anyway, and the pedal height being that far out gives a good indication that other things may well be incorrect as well.

 

[vaultsman]

Hopefully the operating arm will be so far out on the splines that along with the pushrod being too long at the same time will have meant that the piston will have been fully back in the slave, so giving the same effect as riding the clutch pedal.

Regardless it all needs setting up properly anyway, and the pedal height being that far out gives a good indication that other things may well be incorrect as well.

Finally :shock: got underneath to fit a new slave cylinder...and after taking the old one off found the operating arm jammed up against the bell housing! And impossible to move it rearward...i.e. no free play at all.


(By the way...the arm wasn't hanging off like that...I'd started to pry it off before I remembered the camera!)

Clutch withdrawal shaft rotates freely once the arm's off.

PM'd Harvey who said that would give the same effect as riding the clutch so hopefully that's why it was slipping..

=========================================

OK..arm off and re-positioned with the release bearing touching the pressure plate...I think this looks vertical..sorry about the iffy pics...(had to contort these old bones to get them! :roll: )


(By the way...the arm wasn't hanging off like that...I'd started to pry it off before I remembered the camera!)

=========================================

Re-positioned to what I think is one spline forward...(makes quite a difference over the length of the arm!)


What do you think Harvey? (and everyone!)

 

[harveyp6]

If that is the position with the arm pushed fully rearwards (so the release bearing is touching the pressure plate) then I would say (at a guess) that was 2 splines forward.

I always used to fit it vertically first, then slide it off and turn it the minimum amount possible to get it back on, which must be one spline.

TBH whether it's one or two at the moment, it won't be as bad as having it jammed up against the bellhousing........

 

[vaultsman]

Yep...there looks to be quite a difference between the 2nd and 3rd pics, doesn't there? Tried by feel moving it one spline from vertical 3 times and ended up there every time. I'll have another go at it, because at the moment there's very little free play before the arm's on the bellhousing.

Take your point though..it's got to be better than it was!

 

[Guy Engelsman]

I have noticed with the clutch pedal on my new car sits very high. I am talking about nearly level with the botom of the glove box :shock:
The clutch works fine, and resisitance is first felt when the pedal is level with the brake pedal. The spring seems to be the issue. Should there be a bump stop on the TOP of the pedal to stop it riding up too high? The contortions required to actuate the clutch are quite uncomfortable.

I have checked underneath and the release arm is vertical, the clutch takes up correctly with no slip, but the pedal is way off where it is meant to be.

Any ideas?

Cheers

GUY

 

[Demetris]

The pedal height is adjustable and off course it should not be like this. If you have access to a workshop manual, you can read about it, it is very easy. The actuating rod of the clutch master cylinder is threaded on its end that goes to the pedal. All you need is a 1/2 inch spanner to undo the locknut, and a flat blade screwdriver to turn the rod. Once you pull back the carpets and look down at the pedals it will be obvious. If i remember well the lowest part of the pedal rubber should be aproximately 17,5 cm from the floor (carpets and insulation removed). This should be the same with the height of the brake pedal.

There is a whole procedure to clutch adjustment, which involves adjustment of the rod on the slave pedal too. Probably something is wrong in the whole setup, so they adjusted the pedal like this to compensate.
I suggest to do the job properly and check the slave cylinder too.

 

[vaultsman]

The actuating rod of the clutch master cylinder is threaded on its end that goes to the pedal.

Not sure about the 4-cylinder, but on the V8 the clutch pedal height is adjusted by a locknut directly under the clutch master cylinder.

See Harvey's post earlier on this thread, but basically set the brake pedal height from within the footwell, then set the clutch pedal level with it from within the engine bay. I ended up having to remove the clutch master cylinder complete with its bracket as the locknut & pushrod had completely seized. The clevis pin's a right fiddle though!

Good Luck!

 

[Demetris]

Not sure about the 4-cylinder, but on the V8 the clutch pedal height is adjusted by a locknut directly under the clutch master cylinder.

Oups, sorry about that, i forgot that V8s have a different clutch master setup.

Thanks for pointing this out Stan.

 

[Guy Engelsman]

Sorted.
The roll pin in the clutch shaft was sheared allowing the pedal to rise up too far under the pressure of the return spring.
Out with the pedal box and a master/ slave cylinder rebuild while it is apart.

Cheers

GUY

 

[vaultsman]

Just a quick update on the original thread...

Back on the road again after the winter engine saga. New master and slave fitted, withdrawal mech set up as it should be...and no hint of slipping at the moment!

Thanks for talking me through it Harvey! Result!

And a fresh MOT today with no advisories...great feeling that!

 

[harveyp6]

A good result on all fronts then!

If that was a new clutch, (Shame the garage couldn't fit it properly!) and you've now set it all up correctly, then it shouldn't slip for a good while yet. (TBH you should never need to fit another one.)