4 cylinder issues
- Thread starter Fraserp6
- Start date
chrisyork said:
V8 pointers can get bent and be inaccurate, but I think you'd be very unlucky for that to happen on a 4 pot as the pointer for the front pulley is basically a 3/8" (IIRC) bolt screwed directly into the block, with the pointer as the head, and they're well protected from damage anyway as you can't get them out without removing the crank pulley.
darth sidious
New Member
harveyp6 said:
Well, if I can get at the old bottom end in our garage, I'll take a picture of the pointer on our old 2000Auto's original engine (or rather, the engine it had in it when we first got it - I'm assuming that was the engine it was fitted with when it was in the factory being built!).
The pointer on it is damaged (was like that before we got it), the 'pointer' is not quite pointy!
Hi y'all,
Been back out at the car this weeken, getting some progress done, fitted a new cylinder head gasket today, old one looked tired and disintegrate when I tried to remove it, so hard to tell whether it had blown or not.
Either way, new gasket fitted, and the camshaft etc back together.
I've done my valve clearances and found the following
Inlet Exhaust
Cylinder 4 0.15 0.20
Cylinder 3 0.15 0.15
Cylinder 2 0.15 0.15
Cylinder 1 0.10 0.15
this is in mm
Perhaps more useful in Imperial
Inlet Exhaust
Cylinder 4 0.0059 0.0059
Cylinder 3 0.0059 0.0059
Cylinder 2 0.0059 0.0059
Cylinder 1 0.0039 0.0078
The head gasket I bought would be an ebay job, looked pretty much identical to the one I previously had fitted, was the metal/asbestos type as opposed to a Corgasyl.
The 2000 handbook states, 0.008 to 0.001 for and Inlet tolerance and 0.13 to 0.15 for an exhaust.
So this is way out, or I'm crap at using feeler gauges.
Unfortunately I can't remember (and didn't write down) the measurements before I changed over the gasket.
Anybody know where to go from here, I assume it is either machining the shims I have or changing them over for something else?
Thanks
Fraser
Been back out at the car this weeken, getting some progress done, fitted a new cylinder head gasket today, old one looked tired and disintegrate when I tried to remove it, so hard to tell whether it had blown or not.
Either way, new gasket fitted, and the camshaft etc back together.
I've done my valve clearances and found the following
Inlet Exhaust
Cylinder 4 0.15 0.20
Cylinder 3 0.15 0.15
Cylinder 2 0.15 0.15
Cylinder 1 0.10 0.15
this is in mm
Perhaps more useful in Imperial
Inlet Exhaust
Cylinder 4 0.0059 0.0059
Cylinder 3 0.0059 0.0059
Cylinder 2 0.0059 0.0059
Cylinder 1 0.0039 0.0078
The head gasket I bought would be an ebay job, looked pretty much identical to the one I previously had fitted, was the metal/asbestos type as opposed to a Corgasyl.
The 2000 handbook states, 0.008 to 0.001 for and Inlet tolerance and 0.13 to 0.15 for an exhaust.
So this is way out, or I'm crap at using feeler gauges.
Unfortunately I can't remember (and didn't write down) the measurements before I changed over the gasket.
Anybody know where to go from here, I assume it is either machining the shims I have or changing them over for something else?
Thanks
Fraser
redrover
Well-Known Member
I'm sure you're fine with gauges!
To be honest it took me a while to get accurate results until somebody told me about the 1-over-1-under technique. Bend the feeler under the cam heel so it's flat ontop of the tappet. If it fits, increase it by 1 thou (using a combination of thicker gauges, eg, for 9, use 6 & 3, rather than 8 & 1 - it's just less fiddly!), and continue increasing by one thou until the gauge won't go in. Then decrease it by one and check it does fit cleanly - that is your reading.
This technique gives you a much more accurate result, as all the oil can make you think the gauge is 'dragging' when it's actually just glooped up in a much wider gap!
It's a bit suspect that your gaps (apart from two) are so consistent, and either points to a PO messing about, or inaccurate readings.
Michael
Keith Coman
New Member
A *suggestion* [emphasis] is to go slightly over size with valve gaps. This accommodates the on-going shortage / catch as catch can situation with valve shims: rather err on the small size than take a chance on using a shim that's just a fraction too large. In addition, a slightly larger than specified gap will allow for unleaded petrol recession effects. I set my gaps with a target 2 thou over factory: yes, it's a bit rattly but not too much. I have developed an Excel spreadsheet for calculating valve gaps, if it will be generally useful please let me know and I'll upload it here.
Taking accurate gap readings is impossible with straight feeler gauges. A suggestion is to buy a set of standard feelers, remove the pin holding them all together and bend each one individually so that they go in perpendicular to the valve. Loose gauges are a pleasure to work with and can be kept in a suitable container in between jobs. The one over : one under technique described earlier is the only way to go.
Finally, I had chronic carb backfiring, one carb refusing to tune and poor running a while ago on the TC: tried everything. Cured by opening up the carb float chambers and noting 40 years of crud inside. What had happened is the movement of the carb during an earlier top end overhaul caused a fid of muck to shift into the affected carb's jet. High pressure air line down the jet from above. Sorted.
Taking accurate gap readings is impossible with straight feeler gauges. A suggestion is to buy a set of standard feelers, remove the pin holding them all together and bend each one individually so that they go in perpendicular to the valve. Loose gauges are a pleasure to work with and can be kept in a suitable container in between jobs. The one over : one under technique described earlier is the only way to go.
Finally, I had chronic carb backfiring, one carb refusing to tune and poor running a while ago on the TC: tried everything. Cured by opening up the carb float chambers and noting 40 years of crud inside. What had happened is the movement of the carb during an earlier top end overhaul caused a fid of muck to shift into the affected carb's jet. High pressure air line down the jet from above. Sorted.
esray
Member
Fraserp6 said:
Fraser, I recently had real problems fitting a POWERSPARK High Energy 25D4 distributor to my 2.2 sc. I eventually figured out that I had been attempting to time it 180 degrees out! Same symptons as you - Occasional backfire but no start.
Make sure that your static timing is set on number 4 at tdc. Double check it by putting your finger over the plug hole on number four and turning the engine via its crank pulley until the air pressure against your finger coincides with your dizzy rotor arm pointing at number 4 plug lead position.
It worked for me, anyway, and I recommend the Powerspark with the electronic module!
Hello,
I've been a little quite on this as I've been working away on other things. I've also had my shims away to be machined, so having only just received them back this afternoon, I'm in the process of rebuilding the top of the camshaft assembly.
Quite on hopefully.
I've turned the engine to the EP marking on the Flywheel, see photo, and I'm just wondering which marking on the flywheel it the point that I'm looking to line the pointer up with?
Thanks
Fraser
I've been a little quite on this as I've been working away on other things. I've also had my shims away to be machined, so having only just received them back this afternoon, I'm in the process of rebuilding the top of the camshaft assembly.
Quite on hopefully.
I've turned the engine to the EP marking on the Flywheel, see photo, and I'm just wondering which marking on the flywheel it the point that I'm looking to line the pointer up with?
Thanks
Fraser
Attachments
She Runs!!
Having replaced the shims, bought a new set of plugs and put her all back together she started. The ignition timing was pretty out and the carbs will certainly be out of sync and tune, however, the important thing was she started and relatively easily considering how far out the ingition and the carbs where!
Alas, she's now also out of fuel, so it'll be tomorrow before I can tune her fully.
Happy days...
I did, however, notice that she was a little more tappet-y that she had been previously. Would this potentially be a settling in trouble as valves settle and everything gets use to running as she's currently set up?
I noticed as she began to warm up the noise disappeared...
Next task, bumpers and finally finish The Air-Con
Having replaced the shims, bought a new set of plugs and put her all back together she started. The ignition timing was pretty out and the carbs will certainly be out of sync and tune, however, the important thing was she started and relatively easily considering how far out the ingition and the carbs where!
Alas, she's now also out of fuel, so it'll be tomorrow before I can tune her fully.
Happy days...
I did, however, notice that she was a little more tappet-y that she had been previously. Would this potentially be a settling in trouble as valves settle and everything gets use to running as she's currently set up?
I noticed as she began to warm up the noise disappeared...
Next task, bumpers and finally finish The Air-Con
Hi Jim,
If you're facing the engine bay, looking at the engine, you want to be looking to your left-hand side along the side of the engine where the oil filter is. Look as far back as the bellhousing, where the engine meets the gearbox. On the top of the gearbox bellhousing there will be a small metal plate fixed with two bolt, it'll be about half the size of a credit card. Undo those bolts not fully and the plate should swing on the bolt, under that you'll see the flywheel, with cogged teeth. You rotate the until you find the EP markings, which is always easier if you've got the plugs out. Around that area there is a pin bolted to the engine aide on the assembly, that is your locking pin, undo that and use it to lock your flywheel, useful if you're ever taking the head off.
Hope that helps.
If you're facing the engine bay, looking at the engine, you want to be looking to your left-hand side along the side of the engine where the oil filter is. Look as far back as the bellhousing, where the engine meets the gearbox. On the top of the gearbox bellhousing there will be a small metal plate fixed with two bolt, it'll be about half the size of a credit card. Undo those bolts not fully and the plate should swing on the bolt, under that you'll see the flywheel, with cogged teeth. You rotate the until you find the EP markings, which is always easier if you've got the plugs out. Around that area there is a pin bolted to the engine aide on the assembly, that is your locking pin, undo that and use it to lock your flywheel, useful if you're ever taking the head off.
Hope that helps.
j_radcliffe
Active Member
If the pin has been lost, then a screwdriver or an allen key works quite well to lock the flywheel.