Alternative engines - Which other engines could be/were put in

bandito

bandito

New Member
Hello,

A Montego Diesel engine in a P6 was offered on ebay the other month.
That made me think. There is ample room under the bonnet.
Given the never ending stream of questions about problems and failiures with the
aging P6 engines one wishes to ask:

What alternative engines may fit into a P6 without too many problems?
What has /has not worked in the past?
Any ideas you wish to share?

Thanks,
 
Bandito,

for the talented man, anything is possible, even projects that are absolutely ... crazy!
For example people fit transverse Rover V8 engines in minis, tank RR Meteor engines in SD1s, etc.
So, your imagination is only the limit. As you understand, space is the least of the problems. Yes, the P6 has a spacious engine bay, but this is only a start.
So, are you brave and talented enough?
Go ahead with anything you want! You 're not?
Then the option is to pay someone else to do it, and even if this comes true, you 're facing a bill that will be much more than you want to know!

What i am saying is that there are no easy solutions on this subject. Just think how dramatically has changed the engine mounting way since the 1960s.

As for P6 engine reliability, if in reasonably good condition and maintained properly (do everything right the first time rather than bodge it...) it will give you no trouble at all.

So my advice is: If you want reliability look no further than maintaining properly your P6. If you feel adventurous enough to try different ideas, go ahead, but there is no easy way to it, and there is a price to pay.

regards,

Demetris
 
If you're determined to do this then you need something that there are lots of around. In South Africa it would be Toyota. Then decide if Petrol or Diesel and find a breakers and buy the engine and box off them.
Now the fun starts, engine and box mounts remembering to keep it all lined up, but also that a cardan shaft needs a certain amount of run-out (2 degrees IIRC). The transmitters/senders can be transferred over from the original fit with adapters to keep your instruments working properly. If injected, then you need a suitable fuel pump and new plumbing to handle the pressure, plumbing for the cooling system.
It's a long list, but it would be a magnificent challenge to take on and could keep you off the streets for a good few weekends.
 
I'm sure I've said this before on here but my favourite would be a Land Rover 5 cyl 2.5 diesel (probabley out of a Disco). Right amount of poke, a degree of historical authenticity (cf the 5 cyl 2.5 P7 prototype) and the right torque characteristic for a Rover. Plus it comes with the R380 (successor to the LT77) gearbox and we already know that fits. Major snag would be the engine mountings. I'm pretty sure the front ones are very high (and necessarily so) which might be tricky to project off the chassis rails.

Otherwise I could be tempted to investigate the short straight six out of the very last of the big tank Volvo 960 estates. I wouldn't want to know anything with 16 valves on the grounds that the Rover experience is all about an old fashioned low rev torquey delivery (even if it will go to 6,000 if asked) and a 16v engine just won't do that. And there's lots of nice modern V6's out there nowadays - what about a nice rear drive Vauxhall 2.5, 2.6, 3.0 or 3.2 out of a late Carlton - that ought to be nice and cheap too!

Chris
 
Any one know the length of the Jag XK engine? 2.4 engine? Slightly smaller in size than the others. Don't know their total length, may be too long even with a front slam panel (I think thats what its called) of a V8. Although to me an engine transplant should not require cutting of the car.

Shame that Rover did not revert to mcpherson struts after the turbine engine was dumped. With the anti roll bar removed from its current position the engine could be push back well other a foot and we could have been driving around in 6 pot rovers. :)
 
That's why they dropped in the V8 !

But anything's possible given enough time money and talent

What is the main reason for an engine swap - more power or more MPG ?
 
That's an interesting comment about the anti roll bar. And don't forget the track rod between the steering boxes! In the context of a job on this scale, moving the anti roll bar to act conventionally across the front of the car on the lower wishbones is easy, so maybe there is some additional length to be won!

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
That's an interesting comment about the anti roll bar. And don't forget the track rod between the steering boxes! In the context of a job on this scale, moving the anti roll bar to act conventionally across the front of the car on the lower wishbones is easy, so maybe there is some additional length to be won!

Chris
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I was thinking in the context of its what Rover should have done. I would imagine for some to do it them self it would be a big job! But then would it be a P6 any more?

Yer, after I typed the message realised I forgot the steering linkage.
 
DaveHerns said:
What is the main reason for an engine swap - more power or more MPG ?
Click to expand...
To put more life in the car with less hassle? Greater supply at cheaper prices of replacement engine and engine parts? Modernise the car a little.

A little more MPG and power is always going to help but not the main driving force.

A had thought, what about the 2.3 ford V6. Not too big to burn loads of fuel but good torque and nice motorway cruising with a 4 speed auto attached??? Not sure if a Ford in a Rover is a sin or not. ;)
 
Mmm, hve to say I hve a general aversion to Ford engines and the Cologne V6 I always thought was by far the worst of a bad bunch. More rationaly, I think it's a combination of the general built down to a price air of most Ford engines together with their truly dreadfull carburation. Once you get on to Duratecs and the like things improve somewhat, but I've always thought they are generally at least 1/2 a generation behind most of the best competitors, particularely on fuel efficiency.

Oh well, that's a few prejudices out in the open!

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
Mmm, hve to say I hve a general aversion to Ford engines and the Cologne V6 I always thought was by far the worst of a bad bunch. More rationaly, I think it's a combination of the general built down to a price air of most Ford engines together with their truly dreadfull carburation. Once you get on to Duratecs and the like things improve somewhat, but I've always thought they are generally at least 1/2 a generation behind most of the best competitors, particularely on fuel efficiency.

Oh well, that's a few prejudices out in the open!

Chris
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Could not have describe ford engines better myself, spot on. When my BMW was getting some crash damage fix, the only accident I've had in 20 years of driving and I was not in the car! (hand brake failed). Anyway the curtisty car was a Ford KA, and it had a x flow engine in it!!! It was really odd, felt like I was driving the first car I had, a Mk2 escort, prob because they had the same engine in. ;) More than 40 years on they were still putting it in new cars!!!
 
The desire to put all modern bits on a P6 for more life and less hassle could lead to starting off with a modern car and making it look like a P6 .

I'm thinking of the Nissan Micras made to look like Mk2 Jags and advertised on e bay

Can any of the more computer literate contributors do a mock -up ?
 
I've been looking at various different engines to fit for quite a while now, I measured up for the 2.7 honda lump from an 827, at least it was fitted to a rover as standard, but they're quite tricky to turn round for rwd, being designed from day one as a fwd engine. Also being a 90 degree V with overhead cam heads, they're very wide, I worked out that there would be about an inch between rocker covers and the side of the engine bay, changing spark plugs would have been really fun :D

My next, and current plan is to use the 2ltr M16/T16 820 engine, this is a lot easier to turn round as a sherpa gearbox will fit and do it. This gives you the option of 140bhp, 180bhp or 200bhp depending on version, and they're fairly efficient, my 820's do > 40mpg on the motorway (although that's probably more to do with the very low drag of the 820 fastback shell)

But these are still pretty old engines, if you wanted something really modern, your going to run into problems with the engine management, as most now have immobilisers built in which require other parts of the car loom to work. To be honest, you would be best to start with a rear drive configuration, not too many options. BMW's would be a good start, although the straight sixes may be a bit long. I guess the rear drive vaux setup from an Omega would be ok although not exciting ! I suppose they did v6 versions ? How about a Honda S2000 engine ? 8-9000 rpm anybody ?

Personally if I had the funds it would have to be a modern all alloy chevy smallblock, especially the nice new 7ltr 500bhp corvette lump..... Hmmmmmmmm (and its smaller and lighter than a rover v8)
 
webmaster said:
If you want diesel, how about this BMW 2.5, ebay no 330193413884 only 99p at the moment !
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I would thought that most if not all straight six would be a very tight fit if going into a 4 pot engine bay. Problem with a lot of cars that are still RWD is the engine is slanted over to cut down on vibrations. But the BMW four pots, 318 is not always an 1800cc engine. These could be interesting as biggest obstacle normally is the steering to the rack, something that is not there for us. The 2L six pot from a E30 may fit, the engines in the six cylinders E36's have way too big heads, even the early ones without the variable valve timing. Also these engines have low torque at the bottom end. Engines from the E30 with fuel injection would be best I think, and a 2 litre with a 4 speed auto box would be very nice. All depends on its size, would be interesting if its shorter than the 2.3 and 2.5 engines.
But then you still need to mate the box to the diff and correct the speedo, which is electric on BMW's.

What would be best is an engine option that would 'just' drop in and fit on the P6 gear box, with may be engineered engine mounts as the most needed. Any more work and you may as well pay for a rebuild. The 2.0 engine in the SD1 looked interesting, i've seen it in other cars, anyone know what it was called?

I was thinking of a engine out of a sierra 2.0gl auto. Fuel injected engine, Pinto block, even my dog could work on that, and a nice 4 speed auto box.

But a ford in a Rover, you may get shot. :;):
 
The 2ltr sd1 engine roughly shares the bottom end with the 820 M16/T16 engines, you can use the 2ltr sd1 gearbox on the back on the 820 engine.
 
webmaster said:
The 2ltr sd1 engine roughly shares the bottom end with the 820 M16/T16 engines, you can use the 2ltr sd1 gearbox on the back on the 820 engine.
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Now that's interesting, from memory, about 18 years since I last dropped a box out of an SD1, the prop attaches in the same way as it does on the P6. I wonder if the P6 auto box would fit on one??? Was thinking that the plate on the back of the P6 block could be used as an adaptor plate allowing the P6 auto box to go on the 820 engine, solving possible ratio, gearbox mounting and speedo issues. All depends on the compatibility of the torque converter the 820 auto's have or if the P6 torque converter would fit on its flywheel.
 
The 2litre SD1 engine is the "O" series as found in the wedge Princess and the Ital (Where it could be mated to a 65 box) but TBH I can't see the point, a nice 2000 or 2200 engine is more than good enough to get the job done (albeit a bit slow in the autos). Unless you know what you're doing conversions can end up a bit of a pigs breakfast (as seen with the P6 with a diesel motor that turned up).
 
I was interested in this engine to use in an MGB, which is essentially the same problem (in line transplant engine in a confined engine bay). The SD1 version of the O series has a revised head with twin SU's to give a reasonable (102?) power output not dissimilar to an SC, so is definitely superior to the other carburettor versions of the O series. However I speculated whether it would be possible to uprate it to MG Montego / Maestro spec with 115 BHP by either using just the EFi head or perhaps turning a complete engine from transverse to inline. The EFi engine is a wonderfully torquey lump and the injection is a simple early Lucas system with two discreet (and uncoded) modules for the injection and the ignition. In my view this engine suits the character of the P6 much better than the 16 valve M16/T16 which needs working much harder to liberate the admittedly higher power.

I concluded eventually that the correct route would be to use a late Sherpa engine, box and mountings and fit a Montego head and pistons.

This ought to be a reasonably cheap route - a scrap MG Montego could be picked up very cheaply and Bob the Builder must have wrecked thousands of Sherpa's!

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
I concluded eventually that the correct route would be to use a late Sherpa engine, box and mountings and fit a Montego head and pistons.
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Would this give an engine with a longer life than a P6 engine? I was reading an article on graphics cards for PC's and the author said that there is little point in upgrading if the new GFX card is not more that two generations higher than your current hardware.

So unless your config is going to give you 80k's worth of trouble free motoring I would not think its the route to take, of cause it maybe if its just a bolt in job. The engine out of a 820 would I suspect take a lot of 'engineering' to make it fit well. Engine upgrades like these should be made to look like factory installed in my opinion. Of cause if your current engine is bust much like mine (not for long though) then any working option is a better option than the car rotting away. ;) Mine has stood still too long, although I've had to also rebuild the brakes, which are done now.
 
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