Anti roll bar
- Thread starter quattro
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Re: Anto roll bar
Hello Richard,
If you fit a round 24mm diameter anti roll bar, with 19mm hex machined sections on each end, the result to your car's handling will be significant.
A substantial decrease in body roll, making the car handle vastly better through corners.
You will not be disappointed with this change. :wink:
Ron.
Hello Richard,
If you fit a round 24mm diameter anti roll bar, with 19mm hex machined sections on each end, the result to your car's handling will be significant.
A substantial decrease in body roll, making the car handle vastly better through corners.
You will not be disappointed with this change. :wink:
Ron.
Re: Anto roll bar
Hi Ron
Thanks for the info; have you tried this?
I was always been a little disappointed on how my P6s in the past have managed to changed direction, but now I am used to driving a quattro, I am even more disappointed. :?
I am not going mad about this, just want it to handle reasonably well.
I wil also be checking the condition of the suspension system and in the future, will be looking at different springs and shocks.
Richard
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Hi Ron
Thanks for the info; have you tried this?
I was always been a little disappointed on how my P6s in the past have managed to changed direction, but now I am used to driving a quattro, I am even more disappointed. :?
I am not going mad about this, just want it to handle reasonably well.
I wil also be checking the condition of the suspension system and in the future, will be looking at different springs and shocks.
Richard
Hello Richard,
I know of a Rover where this was done, and the owner was singing the praises of the change to anyone who would care to listen. He was well chuffed!
I would imagine that a new 24mm round bar with 19mm hex ends would be made of a suitable spring steel. Companies that manufacture car springs usually also make anti roll bars.
In the case of my Rover, I have K-Mac progressive springs fitted all round. These are in the order of 25% stiffer than the original springs. I also run Koni shocks, the fronts of which were also uprated prior to purchasing. The difference to the cars handling and tendancy to roll have been markedly reduced. Same when braking heavily, nose dive which previously was excessive is now a thing of the past.
Ron.
I know of a Rover where this was done, and the owner was singing the praises of the change to anyone who would care to listen. He was well chuffed!
I would imagine that a new 24mm round bar with 19mm hex ends would be made of a suitable spring steel. Companies that manufacture car springs usually also make anti roll bars.
In the case of my Rover, I have K-Mac progressive springs fitted all round. These are in the order of 25% stiffer than the original springs. I also run Koni shocks, the fronts of which were also uprated prior to purchasing. The difference to the cars handling and tendancy to roll have been markedly reduced. Same when braking heavily, nose dive which previously was excessive is now a thing of the past.
Ron.
Barten
Active Member
Here are the details for Classeparts :
Classeparts Ltd
7A Plantation Road
Leighton Buzzard
Beds
LU7 3HJ
01525 382968
email: beechgroveeng@tiscali.co.uk
regards, Barten
Classeparts Ltd
7A Plantation Road
Leighton Buzzard
Beds
LU7 3HJ
01525 382968
email: beechgroveeng@tiscali.co.uk
regards, Barten
Classeparts
New Member
We have been making heavy duty anti roll bars for a fair time now. The feedback from my customers is good. The bars are made from special spring steel and not just any old bit of metal and the hexagon machined accordingly.
All the best
CLASSEPARTS LTD.
All the best
CLASSEPARTS LTD.
Classeparts said:
Thanks Classeparts
You have a PM
What is up with your web site? - http://www.specialist-carparts.com/
Richard
Alan's anti roll bars are made to the maximum diameter that will fit against the bulkhead, and in fact the end hex is offset to give just a tad more space.
The handling of the P6, especially the V8, is a difficult subject. The front suspension suffers from excessive camber change in compression, even worse on the V8 thanks to the bottom links/wishbones having been shortened to accomodate the wider chassis rails. Anybody who has driven a P6 hard will know that in standard trim it is very well balanced front to rear to give almost neutral handling. BUT this condition is only achieved after the car has settled into a corner - long sweeping bends show this best. Initial turn in is dreadful due to what I call "lurch" as the front suspension reacts to the change of steering input. This can be improved dramatically both by the roll bar already mentioned and by better quality shock absorbers, as supplied by Rover with the "heavy duty" suspension upgrade that was available in the standard options list. So first off upgrade the shocks!! The difficulty with increasing the front anti roll bar is that you upset the balance between front and rear in favour of mild understeer. To correct this the rear roll stiffness must be increased. This can be done either with a rear anti roll bar (also available from Alan) or by increasing the stiffness of the rear springs relative to the fronts.
Note I haven't mentioned lowering or stiff springs here - that is entirely a personal taste and has absolutely no effect whatever on the handling!
Chris
The handling of the P6, especially the V8, is a difficult subject. The front suspension suffers from excessive camber change in compression, even worse on the V8 thanks to the bottom links/wishbones having been shortened to accomodate the wider chassis rails. Anybody who has driven a P6 hard will know that in standard trim it is very well balanced front to rear to give almost neutral handling. BUT this condition is only achieved after the car has settled into a corner - long sweeping bends show this best. Initial turn in is dreadful due to what I call "lurch" as the front suspension reacts to the change of steering input. This can be improved dramatically both by the roll bar already mentioned and by better quality shock absorbers, as supplied by Rover with the "heavy duty" suspension upgrade that was available in the standard options list. So first off upgrade the shocks!! The difficulty with increasing the front anti roll bar is that you upset the balance between front and rear in favour of mild understeer. To correct this the rear roll stiffness must be increased. This can be done either with a rear anti roll bar (also available from Alan) or by increasing the stiffness of the rear springs relative to the fronts.
Note I haven't mentioned lowering or stiff springs here - that is entirely a personal taste and has absolutely no effect whatever on the handling!
Chris
Update
Sparky is back on the road with the new anti-roll bar in place. Suspension height is standard, springs and shocks are standard, still on the Minilites and standard sized tyres.
The news is, it goes round corners. Yes, even roundabouts.
It's not a Ferrari, but it does corner like a normal modern day car, which is quite astounding. I am not trying to fling it around like a go-cart, just driving normally and it does handle a lot better.
Word of warning though - use high tensile bolts!! - lets not go there :shock:
Sparky is back on the road with the new anti-roll bar in place. Suspension height is standard, springs and shocks are standard, still on the Minilites and standard sized tyres.
The news is, it goes round corners. Yes, even roundabouts.
It's not a Ferrari, but it does corner like a normal modern day car, which is quite astounding. I am not trying to fling it around like a go-cart, just driving normally and it does handle a lot better.
Word of warning though - use high tensile bolts!! - lets not go there :shock:
ghce
Well-Known Member
Sounds very good, did you just put an anti roll bar on the front? or did you do the rear as well? I have been a passanger in a car with a 1 inch roll bar fitted and it did seem to corner much more flatly than standard. I need to know more things like costs, unfortunatly I am here in NZ and fear that the exchange rate and freight may be deal breakers but it certainly sounds like a must have mod.
Was the retrofit an easy job (ignoring those mild steel bolts) what had to be removed before you could fit the new anti roll bar? a breif walk thru would be helpful.
Graeme
but it certainly sounds like a must have mod.Was the retrofit an easy job (ignoring those mild steel bolts) what had to be removed before you could fit the new anti roll bar? a breif walk thru would be helpful.
Graeme
Hi quattro. Really pleased to hear you like the effect of the roll bar.
I've postulated elsewhere that the roll bar should dramatically improve turn in to roundabouts and sharp changes of direction. Sounds like your experience supports this. I also believe it will increase understeer when the car is settled into a nice long bend. In standard trim the P6 is very neutral in these circumstances - to the extent that you can influence understeer to oversteer with playful use of the throttle. Have you had the chance to assess this behaviour yet? If you agree with me the solution is very simple - just get a set of standard ride height rear springs at an increased stiffness - I would think +15% would be about right if using standard fronts. Should cost in the £50 to £100 range and are easy to fit.
Then you can go to the next level with a decent set of shocks. Option one is a set of AVO adjustables. These will only offer good and adjustable performance in bounce though. Alan at Classeparts has just launched a set of shocks made specifically for the P6 (so you can adjust the rears on the car through the spring coils) which are also adjustable in rebound. That ought to be significantly better, but they are expensive.
Chris
I've postulated elsewhere that the roll bar should dramatically improve turn in to roundabouts and sharp changes of direction. Sounds like your experience supports this. I also believe it will increase understeer when the car is settled into a nice long bend. In standard trim the P6 is very neutral in these circumstances - to the extent that you can influence understeer to oversteer with playful use of the throttle. Have you had the chance to assess this behaviour yet? If you agree with me the solution is very simple - just get a set of standard ride height rear springs at an increased stiffness - I would think +15% would be about right if using standard fronts. Should cost in the £50 to £100 range and are easy to fit.
Then you can go to the next level with a decent set of shocks. Option one is a set of AVO adjustables. These will only offer good and adjustable performance in bounce though. Alan at Classeparts has just launched a set of shocks made specifically for the P6 (so you can adjust the rears on the car through the spring coils) which are also adjustable in rebound. That ought to be significantly better, but they are expensive.
Chris
ghce said:Sounds very good, did you just put an anti roll bar on the front? or did you do the rear as well? I have been a passanger in a car with a 1 inch roll bar fitted and it did seem to corner much more flatly than standard. I need to know more things like costs, unfortunatly I am here in NZ and fear that the exchange rate and freight may be deal breakers
Was the retrofit an easy job (ignoring those mild steel bolts) what had to be removed before you could fit the new anti roll bar? a breif walk thru would be helpful.
Graeme
Hi Graeme, whilst researching this I found some very interesting information here - I believe this chap is from New Zealand
http://oldsite.p6club.com/improvingthep6.doc
The retrofit was very easy as I already had the wings off. You could possibly do it with them on, or at least one of them on.
Make sure the car is on level ground and just undo the four bolts which hold the anti-roll bar in. Slide it out and clean up the brackets. Slide the new one in and put the new bolts and spring washers in. Tighen it up to specified torque (I am not at home so don't have this figure - will let you know later if you like).
You really need the car sitting on its wheels to get the bolts at the right angle for ease of removal/refitment, but then the wheels get in the way :? Hey ho
Go for a drive and be amazed at the difference - job done
I only fitted the front one btw.
The bolts are 1 3/8" long 5/16 UNF high tensile. (I will check this later too)
chrisyork said:
I haven't had much of a play yet Chris so don't know what it has done apart from stopping Sparky rolling over like a playful puppy on every roudabout. :shock: I'll let you know if anything else develops. I don't really want a track day car anyway, just wanted a car which behaves itself during normal driving.
I will have to save up for any other other upgrades though, spent a bit too much recently.