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DaveHerns said:
Don't you think Chop Shop is a load of rubbish ? How anyone could use 6" wheel spacers on a car is beyond me

Do they not have an engineering consultant ? It's just 2 big mouth/big heads seeing who can swear the most

Just my opinion but I think they are just made to look good for the TV, I would think after about three years of regular use the "Chop Shop" cars would be a mess of cracked filler and rust bubbles. They do have some good bodywork skills but just dont seem to take enough time or think about how the end result is going to work properly. As for 6" wheel spacers on a nearly 2 tonne Beemer.......

One of there projects was on Ebay a few weeks ago, looked like a shortened Corsa with a gas conversion but it had never been on the road. Needed minor jobs like handbrake fitting and connecting up! presumably an SVA test and MOT. Bid up to £320 (no reserve) but they refused to sell it to the winning bidder.
 
It's a bit like these DIY shows where they decorate a room from top to bottom in one day
Replastering , painting , new carpets etc
Makes people think it's easy
 
As for the Jet 1 replica I cant really think WHY they grafted all that jag running gear under it, if they had just dropped a V8 in it at least it would still have been a proper Rover. The 3 inch wheel arch extensions to cover the jag wheels spoilt the look of the finished car. Jag rear ends arnt that difficult to narrow and have been used on all manor of cars over the years, and the P4 has discs on the front so why change it? :roll:
 
trickyhicky270 said:
As for the Jet 1 replica I cant really think WHY they grafted all that jag running gear under it, if they had just dropped a V8 in it at least it would still have been a proper Rover. The 3 inch wheel arch extensions to cover the jag wheels spoilt the look of the finished car. Jag rear ends arnt that difficult to narrow and have been used on all manor of cars over the years, and the P4 has discs on the front so why change it? :roll:

Better handling, that's why. It's all done for the customer, anyway, not you - beauty and taste are in the eye of the beholder. The Jag running gear also gives turbine-like smoothness. Or did they actually build in a turbine?
 
Better Handling! From a Jag rear end? Good lord, they use the driveshaft as one of the wishbones! Even a live axle is better than a Jag back end! Only saving grace is that they do come with nice strong diffs.

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
Better Handling! From a Jag rear end? Good lord, they use the driveshaft as one of the wishbones! Even a live axle is better than a Jag back end! Only saving grace is that they do come with nice strong diffs.

Chris

Dear Lord, Chris, you usually know your stuff, but you do talk some rot sometimes. The original XJ6 - especially in SIII form - remains the benchmark for that sector, handling-wise, even today. It's absolutely superb - and the ride is like a hovercraft on polished glass. I can't think of a better day-to-day classic. It's certainly much better than any live axle! Lots of unsprung weight = bad, Jag back end = good.
 
I agree totally as to the ride. But the geometry of the Jag axle is awfull. The unsprung weight may be low, especially in relative terms when used in a heavy saloon, but the handling is a triumph of spring and damper settings over basic geometry. Also the subframe structure in which it is all housed is appallingly heavy and limits access to the wear components. Having assisted in rebushing an S Type and a V12 E Type I don't ever want to repeat the experience. Look at it another way, it's a heavier version of a late Spitfire rear end - and you surely wouldn't want to promote that as a paragon of how to do it! Wheel to road angles with the Jag system can be arranged to be OK at static ride height, but as soon as roll or bump compression set in things go sadly awry. The vast majority of owners would never be aware of this thanks to decent roll stiffness and very wide tyres, but used in extremis the Jag is inclined to bite. I'm afraid I'd summarise it as a superbly set up system disguising major flaws.

And before you think I'm partisan to the Rover De Dion, yes it achieves excellent wheel to road geometry. But at a cost in unsprung weight. Today it could be re-engineered in light alloy to be a far better system than Rover's version. I'm a fan of modern multi link systems, but they do have certain compromises, notably they assume that spring compression implies heavy cornering and therefore generate some positive camber to counter tyre roll. This makes them difficult to use on a softly sprung saloon without stiffening the suspension beyond what I would regard as acceptable levels. BMW is a prime example of this.

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
I agree totally as to the ride. But the geometry of the Jag axle is awfull. The unsprung weight may be low, especially in relative terms when used in a heavy saloon, but the handling is a triumph of spring and damper settings over basic geometry. Also the subframe structure in which it is all housed is appallingly heavy and limits access to the wear components. Having assisted in rebushing an S Type and a V12 E Type I don't ever want to repeat the experience. Look at it another way, it's a heavier version of a late Spitfire rear end - and you surely wouldn't want to promote that as a paragon of how to do it! Wheel to road angles with the Jag system can be arranged to be OK at static ride height, but as soon as roll or bump compression set in things go sadly awry. The vast majority of owners would never be aware of this thanks to decent roll stiffness and very wide tyres, but used in extremis the Jag is inclined to bite. I'm afraid I'd summarise it as a superbly set up system disguising major flaws.

And before you think I'm partisan to the Rover De Dion, yes it achieves excellent wheel to road geometry. But at a cost in unsprung weight. Today it could be re-engineered in light alloy to be a far better system than Rover's version. I'm a fan of modern multi link systems, but they do have certain compromises, notably they assume that spring compression implies heavy cornering and therefore generate some positive camber to counter tyre roll. This makes them difficult to use on a softly sprung saloon without stiffening the suspension beyond what I would regard as acceptable levels. BMW is a prime example of this.

Chris

"Used in extremis the Jag is inclined to bite" - good! I like cars that are inclined to bite when used in extremis. Oversteer is much more fun than understeer! Comparing the Jag to a Spitfire isn't exactly fair, either - the Spitfire has more in common with the Corvette, inasmuchas it's based on a single transverse leaf spring, not a pair of coils. As for BMW, I can tell you that the E39 5-series rides as well as any remotely sporty saloon - it's not up to Jag/French car standards, but it's bloody good. It glides over imperfections in the road.

However, I'm told that you can nowadays remove your old Jag FIRS setup and put in the modern all-aluminium double wishbone setup from the current XK, which is apparently superb...
 
Let me see now. The Jag has the drive shaft doubling as the lower wishbone and a fixed upper wishbone; the Spitfire (and the Corvette? - I'm not familiar with it's rear suspension) has the drive shaft doubling as the lower wishbone and a fixed upper wishbone which also doubles as the spring. Sounds pretty similar to me.

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
Let me see now. The Jag has the drive shaft doubling as the lower wishbone and a fixed upper wishbone; the Spitfire (and the Corvette? - I'm not familiar with it's rear suspension) has the drive shaft doubling as the lower wishbone and a fixed upper wishbone which also doubles as the spring. Sounds pretty similar to me.

Chris

Some common points, yes, but you've still got the single leaf/twin coil spring bit to consider. The Corvette is basically an overgrown Triumph Herald underneath AFAIK.
 
What a splendidly eccentric car! I hear you with the Easy start thing too, I use my 2000 every day and she does need attention come the weekend, luckily I can wield a spanner with some confidence, anyway full marks to you for not buying a boring clone-box.
:D
 
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