Car build Project

M

Martyn Taylor

New Member
Hi, I am about to embark of a Kit Build based on an MGF. The kit is from Dehavilland Motor Company and is a Ferrari Dino Replica. Being an attention to detail person I want to use a 2.4L V6 and I've thought about the KV6 engine/gearbox. My question is as the KV6 is designed as a front wheel drive solution if you mid mount it you will need to turn it around to get the gear linkages facing the gear lever which would now be in front of it. How do you get the gearbos to provide 5 forward gears and one reverse as in the new orientation it would be 5 reverse gears and one forward? Also does anyone have any thoughts on the KV6 as there are a lot of negative comments out there on the web regarding water pumps/heads etc? Thanks in anticipation. Martyn
 
Hi, You need to leave the engine and g/box in the same orientation just further back in the car. As you unspokenly assume this leaves the gear linkage facing the back of the car, so you need to fabricate a linkage that will connect the original lever assembly in its correct orientation to the g/box. Exciting isn't it? I can't offer particular suggestions because I'm not familiar with the set up and for the same reason can't comment on the engines problems if any. Ask the kit maker they may have a linkage already made.

Colin
 
Hi Colin, thanks for that. This would make any linkage assembly having to go around the engine or underneath the engine, don't think thats viable. Some people have sugested reversing the diff, dont know if thats feasible? The project usually uses the MGF engine/gearbox and I assume turns it through 180 degrees, I am going there on 24th August so will find out how they do it with the 1.8T, just trying to get a heads up before I go. Any alternative V6 possible solutions welcome!

Martyn
 
As Colin said, you should forget about changing the orientation of any engine gearbox combinations, as this would create far - far more problems than designing and fabricating a suitable gearchange linkage. The MGF uses practicaly a front Rover Metro subframe and drivetrain, still in the same orientation, making it a mid engined car. You should do the same with the Dino replica, using an existing front wheel drive drivetrain just in front of the rear wheels. Another V6 possibility is the Honda one used on Rover 825 / 827 although this is somewhat wider than usual being at 90 degrees. Also there are some other Japanese V6 front wheel drivelines that might be suitable, but i am not very familiar with all these.
Don't assume that all gearboxes have the input for the gearchange from the rear, some have it on top, which will make it easier for you.
 
Demetris said:
As Colin said, you should forget about changing the orientation of any engine gearbox combinations, as this would create far - far more problems than designing and fabricating a suitable gearchange linkage. The MGF uses practicaly a front Rover Metro subframe and drivetrain, still in the same orientation, making it a mid engined car. You should do the same with the Dino replica, using an existing front wheel drive drivetrain just in front of the rear wheels. Another V6 possibility is the Honda one used on Rover 825 / 827 although this is somewhat wider than usual being at 90 degrees. Also there are some other Japanese V6 front wheel drivelines that might be suitable, but i am not very familiar with all these.
Don't assume that all gearboxes have the input for the gearchange from the rear, some have it on top, which will make it easier for you.
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Thanks for the input Demetris
 
Is the KV6 a rod, or cable shift? If it's a cable shift, it shouldn't be too much of a problem? You can make rod linkages to take the shift over or under the gearbox - the Factory Five 818 uses a Subaru engine and gearbox mid-mounted so the gearbox is at the rear of the car. They've gone around the engine and gearbox somehow. They have a build forum that may help.

Wouldn't an Alfa V6 be more appropriate in a Ferrari replica?
 
Baron von Marlon said:
Is the KV6 a rod, or cable shift? If it's a cable shift, it shouldn't be too much of a problem? You can make rod linkages to take the shift over or under the gearbox - the Factory Five 818 uses a Subaru engine and gearbox mid-mounted so the gearbox is at the rear of the car. They've gone around the engine and gearbox somehow. They have a build forum that may help.

Wouldn't an Alfa V6 be more appropriate in a Ferrari replica?
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I would love the Alpha V6 but it has a six speed box which would be a problem with the ferrari gear gate, it takes 1 reverse and five forward, six gates in total. Also apparently causes issues with half-shafts angles not flat and in-line. The advantage i see with the KV6 is that it alsmost identical is size h/w/l as the 1.8T from the MGF which the kit was based on as far as i can tell from KV6 sites. Don't know about cable v linkages.
 
Hi, Building kit cars and modifying cars requires a certain mindset and I'm not sure you have it yet but it will come. The company offer a modified gear shift for the MGF set up. However the drivetrain you want won't work with the hoped for Ferrari gate so you could make a new gear gate plate with the right number of slots and locations. This is the sort of thinking you need to do, it's easier to make a gate plate than try and find another drivetrain with the right number of gears and reverse in the right place.

I'm not having a go or doubting you abilities (only you know that) but hopefully giving you food for thought.

Colin
 
colnerov said:
Hi, Building kit cars and modifying cars requires a certain mindset and I'm not sure you have it yet but it will come. The company offer a modified gear shift for the MGF set up. However the drivetrain you want won't work with the hoped for Ferrari gate so you could make a new gear gate plate with the right number of slots and locations. This is the sort of thinking you need to do, it's easier to make a gate plate than try and find another drivetrain with the right number of gears and reverse in the right place.

I'm not having a go or doubting you abilities (only you know that) but hopefully giving you food for thought.

Colin
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Thanks Colin.....no offence taken, built a Triumph Vitesse when I was 16 (with dad's help) but things have changed lots since then, emu's, ecu's etc........as I said in my opening gambit i'm an attention to detail guy and the dino had a 6 gate plate so 6 gate's it has to be! From memory the KV6 has a five speed box? Martyn
 
Martyn Taylor said:
I would love the Alpha V6 but it has a six speed box which would be a problem with the ferrari gear gate, it takes 1 reverse and five forward, six gates in total
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Look at the Alfa GTV/Alfa6 Saloon engine and box. Shorten the engine to box propshaft and you may be able to squeeze it in for mid-mounting.
 
unstable load said:
Look at the Alfa GTV/Alfa6 Saloon engine and box. Shorten the engine to box propshaft and you may be able to squeeze it in for mid-mounting.
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Hi John, there's a couple of them out there with the Alpha V6, just can't get beyond the 6 gear box though, not sure what the old Alpha GTV6 box had though thinking about it? Martyn
 
The old Alfa one is a 5-speed transaxle box, and was fitted to the Giulietta, Alfetta and Alfa 6 models. They had issues with the 1st/2nd syncros, but that was a solvable issue. The main problem I think for you will be the length of the 'box + engine for a mid-engine fit you want to do, but I'd haul out a tape measure and give it a look-see.

alfa romeo gtv6 transaxle - Google Search
 
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