Cooling

P

pat180269

Active Member
Any ideas ?

On warm summer days ( remember them ! ) on a fast run the temperature gauge moves from the mid position up towards the start of the red area on the temp gauge. I was wondering if this is normal behaviour for the 4 cylinder engines ( 2200TC ). If not what is the likely cause?

I have fitted a new water pump, all new hoses, replaced the heater box which originally leaked( flushed out the matrix ), flushed the radiator with a hose and replaced the thermostat. At least one of the sideplates has been changed in the last 3 years by the previous owner.

The gauge stays in the centre of the dial when idling etc but when on the motorway at 70-80mph the gauge needle has a tendency to move up which is a little disconcerting as it gives the impression that hitting traffic will cause the engine to boil.

Pat
 
They're the normal symptoms of a blocked or inefficient rad, but....In the case of the 2000/2200 what lurks in the way of silt/crud behind the sideplates is always a concern, and although one has been done, you don't know how well it was all cleaned out, and the other one is a mystery. Just beacuse you've flushed the rad, that's nowhere near as good as getting it rodded through.
 
Pat, mine used to run fairly warm, not into the red but hovering at 85ºC and over until I had the radiator recored in November and now the needle sits just around the 8 all the time whether on the motorway or in traffic.

I think yours it probably running on the hot side.
 
One further point of information, I have some old garage bills for the car and on more than one occasion radweld has been added to try and stop the old heater box leak. Could this block the radiator or is it more likely to be sludge?

Q. Is there any way to determine if it needs de-sludging ( other than the fact that it runs too warm of course ) ?

Q. Can I effectively de-sludge the engine from one side ( passenger ) as the drivers side plate has been changed and I'd rather not remove it? I could do this and change the other plate at the same time. I suppose carbs, manifold engine, mount would need to be removed.

Q. Rodding the rad. Is this something I can do or do I need professional help ?

I am having the layshaft bearings replaced in the gearbox and I am about to remove it. I am now wondering given the above whether it would be easier to remove the engine and box together and clean out the block whilst the box is being repaired.

Pat
 
pat180269 said:
One further point of information, I have some old garage bills for the car and on more than one occasion radweld has been added to try and stop the old heater box leak. Could this block the radiator or is it more likely to be sludge?
Click to expand...

Excessive amounts of Radweld could block the rad.


pat180269 said:
Q. Is there any way to determine if it needs de-sludging ( other than the fact that it runs too warm of course ) ?
Click to expand...

Only by removing the sideplates.

pat180269 said:
Q. Can I effectively de-sludge the engine from one side ( passenger ) as the drivers side plate has been changed and I'd rather not remove it? I could do this and change the other plate at the same time. I suppose carbs, manifold engine, mount would need to be removed.
Click to expand...

If you want to do both sides, both sideplates need to be removed. You would need to remove all the parts you listed to get the N/S sideplate off.

pat180269 said:
Q. Rodding the rad. Is this something I can do or do I need professional help ?
Click to expand...

It's not a DIY option, any rad specialist should be able to do it for you though.

pat180269 said:
I am having the layshaft bearings replaced in the gearbox and I am about to remove it. I am now wondering given the above whether it would be easier to remove the engine and box together and clean out the block whilst the box is being repaired.
Click to expand...

You could remove the engine/box as one lump if you wanted, I wouldn't personally, but that's no reason why you shouldn't.
 
Hi Pat,

Sorry to hear you're still having issues. From my experience, dirty, cloudy coolant suggested that there was sludge in the system. I changed the rad and coolant 4 years ago and it was cloudy within a week. After I rebuilt the engine, the coolant was in for 18 months before I drained it last summer. It came out as clear and blue as it did the day it went in!

When I rebuilt the engine, I scooped out the sludge, then pressure washed the inside of the block (both side plates off). Let is dry off over night, then set at the baked-on solidified stuff (which in a sense is sandstone!) with a blunt chisel. Got all that off, then sanded the outside of the bores and inside of the block with flexible emery pads. Pressure washed again. Came back in the morning and everything was spotless with a bright orange surface finish on the iron. Clapped on the side plates and filled her up. Been magic ever since!

It's a lot of work, but well worth it. The amount of sludge on the bottom completely covered the oil gallery, so that and the bottom of the bores won't have been getting much cooling at all before (not that there is much friction at the bottom of the bores)

Michael
 
If I wanted to remove engine and box with a suitable engine crane thinking out loud.....

Above
-------
Bonnet
Throttle linkage, Choke cable, Air Cleaner
Top,Bottom hose,radiator, Heater hoses
Front stabiliser bar
Servo vac to inlet manifold hose
Engine mount bolts
Temp sender wire
Oil pressure switch and sender wires
Engine to baseunit earth strap

Inside car
-----------
Speaker grill
Centre console
Gearlever

Below
-------
Drain Engine and gearbox oil
Propshaft sliding joint
Exhaust downpipe joint
Exhaust pipe to gearbox mount
Gearbox rear mount / crossbar
Clutch slave cylinder
Starter and alternator wiring
Reversing switch wiring
speedo cable



Is that everything ?

Does the gearbox remote need to come off to allow the box to drop down ?

How high does the crane need to lift to clear the slam panel ?

Is it easier to pull the engine off the box and remove first ?

Any advice / experiences welcomed.

Cheers

Pat
 
pat180269 said:
If I wanted to remove engine and box with a suitable engine crane thinking out loud.....

Above
-------
Bonnet
Throttle linkage, Choke cable, Air Cleaner
Top,Bottom hose,radiator, Heater hoses
Front stabiliser bar
Servo vac to inlet manifold hose
Engine mount bolts
Temp sender wire
Oil pressure switch and sender wires
Engine to baseunit earth strap
Click to expand...

That sounds about it.

pat180269 said:
Inside car
-----------
Speaker grill
Centre console
Gearlever
Click to expand...

I'd just remove the gearknob and detent sleeve, the gearlever itself can be removed from underneath.

pat180269 said:
Below
-------
Drain Engine and gearbox oil
Propshaft sliding joint
Exhaust downpipe joint
Exhaust pipe to gearbox mount
Gearbox rear mount / crossbar
Clutch slave cylinder
Starter and alternator wiring
Reversing switch wiring
speedo cable
Click to expand...

I wouldn't drain the oils. I'd remove the rear section of the prop completely.



pat180269 said:
Is that everything ?

Does the gearbox remote need to come off to allow the box to drop down ?

How high does the crane need to lift to clear the slam panel ?

Is it easier to pull the engine off the box and remove first ?

Any advice / experiences welcomed.

Cheers

Pat
Click to expand...

The gearbox remote doesn't need to be removed, but a lot of people seem to manage to break it somehow, so I'll leave that decision to you.

The crane needs to go pretty high as the unit will come out gearbox end down. Raising the rear on stands lowers the slam panel.
 
Thanks Harvey

I'll remove the gearbox only then! Can't be arsed with all that lot. I'll pull the side plates off whilst the box is away and clean it out.

Any idea how much it costs to have the rad rodded out ? Presumably its cheaper than a recore ?

Pat
 
I've removed the box on its own before and it was a complete PITA! Inexperience I think mainly.

Here are the parts I found most awkward, any pointers very much appreciated:-

1) Engine tilted back into correct position. I seem to remember reading a trick with a bolt and a bracket at the front to hold the engine in the right position ?

2) 2200TC. The throttle linkage bracket was a problem last time I remember. When the engine is tilted back it hit the steering damper bracket. I think I ended up removing the heatshield below the carbs as well.

3) Top bell housing bolt on passenger side was inaccessible. Should I remove this before tilting engine ?

Job for Saturday :D
 
pat180269 said:
1) Engine tilted back into correct position. I seem to remember reading a trick with a bolt and a bracket at the front to hold the engine in the right position ?
Click to expand...

Whn the engine is tipped back bolt the top hole on the steady bracket into the bottom hole on the engine.

pat180269 said:
2) 2200TC. The throttle linkage bracket was a problem last time I remember. When the engine is tilted back it hit the steering damper bracket. I think I ended up removing the heatshield below the carbs as well.
Click to expand...

I don't ever remember that being a problem. The most you should need to remove is the air cleaner.

pat180269 said:
3) Top bell housing bolt on passenger side was inaccessible. Should I remove this before tilting engine ?
Click to expand...

Yes remove both top bellhousing bolts, and the top starter bolt, plus any others that are easier from the top than the bottom.
 
pat180269 said:
Any idea how much it costs to have the rad rodded out ? Presumably its cheaper than a recore ?

Pat
Click to expand...

My recored radiator,done in November, was £200 - that included a repair to the drain plug and sorting out the oil cooler that runs in the bottom tank and it's an early waterfall style radiator so a crossflow one might be easier/cheaper.
 
Wins do recored 4-cyl crossflow rads for £165 + vat and carriage. I think that could be on exchange, but still not that much cheaper. Does anybody know if Mark Gray does them on exchange? His website doesn't list them, but I know he's adding new lines all the time.
 
You might want to consider a drop in Aluminum replacement. Do a search on here you can find out how to make the brackets. Here it the link to the supplier:

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+ ... 5/10002/-1

The price works out at 100 british pounds. You can put in your cart and put in an address and it will calculate shipping. Also I do not know how strict they are on charging VAT tax in items shipped in from overseas. So it may be cheaper, or may not. If the price is about the same then it is probably best to support the Rover suppliers, as we need them to stay in business.

James.
 
j_radcliffe said:
You might want to consider a drop in Aluminum replacement. Do a search on here you can find out how to make the brackets. Here it the link to the supplier:
Click to expand...

That's a very attractive idea! I never thought ally rads would be as affordable as that so never bothered looking. I don't suffer with any cooling issues personally, but if you're climbing into the red a bit, that'd be money well spent!
 
redrover said:
j_radcliffe said:
You might want to consider a drop in Aluminum replacement. Do a search on here you can find out how to make the brackets. Here it the link to the supplier:
Click to expand...

That's a very attractive idea! I never thought ally rads would be as affordable as that so never bothered looking. I don't suffer with any cooling issues personally, but if you're climbing into the red a bit, that'd be money well spent!
Click to expand...

I might be "in the past" here, but weren't aluminium radiators or heater matrices (plural of matrix) a problem with some Ford's during the 1980's? :?:
 
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