Could my leaking fuel pump be causing awful mpg?

It seemed to be gushing out and there was nothing I could do to stop it other than get on with sorting the hacksaw blade so I could finish the cut. Bloody thing. It would have been fine if I hadn't tripped over the jack and kicked the tray/container askew, dumping the contents on the garage floor and causing the half-cut fuel line to gush straight onto the concrete. Anyway, the pump's in now, and I pray to the God of Rovers that my fuel consumption improves from the awful level it's been just lately.
 
WarrenL said:
It seemed to be gushing out and there was nothing I could do to stop it other than get on with sorting the hacksaw blade so I could finish the cut. Bloody thing. It would have been fine if I hadn't tripped over the jack and kicked the tray/container askew, dumping the contents on the garage floor and causing the half-cut fuel line to gush straight onto the concrete. Anyway, the pump's in now, and I pray to the God of Rovers that my fuel consumption improves from the awful level it's been just lately.

Hi Warren .
Bit late now , but if you need to work on / fiddle with the fuel pump again you can easily remove the pipe from the reserve tap and cap the flow off there with an improvised short rubber pipe and bolt stuffed in the end . you'll just loose what's in that 4' ft or so of pipe to the pump , then you can work under no pressure of draining the tank , and burning your car and garage down :D
 
Good idea, Stina. Didn't think of that today, but it seems obvious now that you've mentioned it.
 
Hi Warren,

An easier and much quicker alternative would have been just to pull the reserve tap knob half way out.

Look forward to seeing how your fuel consumption responds now that the new pump has been installed.

Ron.
 
WarrenL said:
You guys were meant to tell me all this BEFORE I changed the pump.

Sorry ! Mind , i only learned after about 2 jerry cans full up the arm pit :shock: :LOL:
 
Well, I'm sorry to report that the new fuel pump hasn't cracked the problem. I don't have petrol leaking over the block anymore, that's one thing I suppose. But we went for a nice drive in the countryside this afternoon and the car managed just over 19 mpg. Very disappointing, and I'm feeling somewhat frustrated. It ran nicely enough, and the relaxed cruising at open road speed with the torque converter locked was a pleasure. But I was really hoping for much better mpg... :cry:
 
Hi Warren,

If Brown Rover was delivering in the order of 25mpg before you changed the transmission, and as essentially nothing has changed with the engine to alter that fact, then the extra consumption must be down to the ZF. As an experiment, can you lock out the 4th gear and just use the first 3 and see what that delivers?

Shooting off on a tangent, the stronger the transmission, the more horsepower that it will take from the engine to drive it. As an example, the GM Turbo 400 3 speed is 50% stronger than the GM Turbo 350, but that increase in strength also means that the former takes 25% more power from the engine in order to drive it.

Ron.
 
Well, there are f**ked with carburettors and a leaky fuel pump to include in the recipe, Ron, both of which predate the ZF conversion, but only by 55 miles (there's a long story behind my exact figure), making a before ZF/after ZF comparison difficult. Regardless, today's drive was mostly 100 kph cruising, in which we are comparing 2100 rpm and a locked torque converter against 3000-3200 rpm with a slipping torque converter. You can't tell me that the former will cause worse fuel consumption.
 
So you don't actually have fuel consumption figures before the conversion to go off for pre/post conditions?

In that case Warren, back to the engine again. Seeing that an unknown person prior to your ownership had ground off the bias leg on one of the needle seats, then anything is possible. Your carburettors should have BBG needles fitted, and the floats should be set to 40 thou. If the needles are richer and/or the floats are set to a greater depth, then fuel consumption will increase for all given points off idle.

I am quite happy to guide you through the process if you wish to pull your carburettors off and have a look at what needs doing.

Ron.
 
Hi Ron

That bit about strength of transmission and power loss is not technically correct. Torque capacity has no relevance whatsoever to transmission loss. That's down to oil churn, convertor slip etc, which are unaffected by torque capacity - especially when the convertor is locked!

Warren

Oh dear! Brown Rover is fighting you to the very last second isn't she! We're now down to going through the basics from scratch.

Step one is to verify there are no additional loads on the car. Is the handbrake dragging? binding calipers? That sort of thing. Then, how confident are you of your trip meter for the recorded mileage, both before and after - perhaps it was flattering to deceive before?

Then you're on to the engine. Start by checking for air getting into the induction system, vacuum hose to servo, pipe to vacuum advance retard, damaged seals around throttle spindle on the HIF's etc. For the latter a very careful listen for hissing - use a piece of old heater hose as a stethoscope.

Then you're on to the ignition system. A change of plugs and of distributor cap and rotor arm are a good idea, the plug leads too if they are not recent and good quality. Then verify that the vacuum advance retard is working by sucking on the tube and verifying that the distributor base plate rotates and returns fully. A twist of the rotor arm to verify the centrifugal advance and retard and to see it fully returns to the stop by the springs. Then set the timing. Verify the timing marks first by using a pointer down a plug hole - pencil or similar. Once set dynamically at no more than 1,000 rpm, see if a small adjustment either way speeds up the engine at all. If it does use that setting instead.

Then it's carburettor time. I think you have rebuild kits on order? If so we'll tackle this after you've fitted them. In the meantime make sure you have two colourtune plugs and a carbalancer if you wish - I simply use that piece of hose stethoscope to listen to the intake hiss.

Enjoy!
 
chrisyork wrote,...
That bit about strength of transmission and power loss is not technically correct. Torque capacity has no relevance whatsoever to transmission loss. That's down to oil churn, convertor slip etc, which are unaffected by torque capacity - especially when the convertor is locked!

Hi Chris,

I was referring to parasitic losses within the transmission. How much actual engine power is absorbed in order to drive it.

Ron.
 
SydneyRoverP6B said:
So you don't actually have fuel consumption figures before the conversion to go off for pre/post conditions?

Not quite. My figures for open road cruising pre-ZF come from way back (as far as 1997!), with a roughly calculated 25.5 for the last trip with the BW. Typically I'd get anywhere from 22-27 on the open road, depending on conditions. Prior to the BW disintegrating, I'd only just had the car back on the road, and the carburettors were mucked with by two professionals, neither of whom did it any favours. One tried to tune the car with stale gas and knackered plugs (I noticed both problems afterwards): it ended up running enormously rich and spewing out clouds of black smoke. The second corrected that by fiddling until the smoke went away, which appears to have been achieved by sitting the needles in funny places, and causing the port carb to run very lean. Goodness knows where the balance is, although I've run through Quagmire's basic process. All I can say is that it appears to be running rich (the exhaust is a bit stinky and there's a trace of smoke), but any attempt to lean out the carburettors results in stuttering when testing via the lift pins. It's beyond my present knowledge to correctly diagnose and properly fix any problems. The car revs smoothly and is definitely driving better too rich than too lean, but... any gains made by replacing the fuel pump have probably been nixed by my fiddling with the carburettors.

SydneyRoverP6B said:
I am quite happy to guide you through the process if you wish to pull your carburettors off and have a look at what needs doing.

I might take you up on that, Ron. However there is still the problem of setting and balancing afterwards. There is a guy recommended by the Canterbury Rover Club who is available next week, so maybe I should bite the bullet and fork over some (more) money? Damn car has just about cleaned me out this last year or so.
 
OK Chris, my responses in bold:

Step one is to verify there are no additional loads on the car. Is the handbrake dragging? binding calipers? That sort of thing. Thought about that one myself tonight. Was going to check tomorrow. Brakes have all been rebuilt in the last couple of years and should be good, but it's an easy check.

Then, how confident are you of your trip meter for the recorded mileage, both before and after - perhaps it was flattering to deceive before? GPS calibrated, and I checked the route out using Google Maps, which returns a distance to within a flea's penis of what my trip meter said. There are also reasons to believe that pre-Dakota Digital the distances I recorded for consumption purposes were accurate (including, again, the use of Google Maps in more recent years).

Then you're on to the engine. Start by checking for air getting into the induction system, vacuum hose to servo, pipe to vacuum advance retard, damaged seals around throttle spindle on the HIF's etc. Brand new rubber all around the top of the engine in 2010, checked for leaks during the last carburettor faff in March. Dead quiet engine at idle, by the way. No hissing, no rumbling, just a very smooth and quiet tickover. For the latter a very careful listen for hissing - use a piece of old heater hose as a stethoscope. In 2010 the carburettors were inspected by a bloke called Larry, who runs a little business called Swift Automotive specialising in SU, and all things BMC. He pronounced them in good nick, but doesn't have a workshop so wasn't able to tune the car for me, otherwise I'd have got him straight onto it rather than taking it to the subsequent monkey (a self-proclaimed classic car specialist...)

Then you're on to the ignition system (Pertronix). A change of plugs (brand new) and of distributor cap and rotor arm (not new, but not at all worn) are a good idea, the plug leads too if they are not recent and good quality (not recent, but good quality). Then verify that the vacuum advance retard is working by sucking on the tube and verifying that the distributor base plate rotates and returns fully. A twist of the rotor arm to verify the centrifugal advance and retard and to see it fully returns to the stop by the springs (both done just the other day). Then set the timing (checked the other day at 6 degrees BTDC). Verify the timing marks first by using a pointer down a plug hole - pencil or similar (I calibrated this when I had the front pulley off last year). Once set dynamically at no more than 1,000 rpm, see if a small adjustment either way speeds up the engine at all. If it does use that setting instead (not done, didn't know about that. Will give it a whirl, Pearl).

Then it's carburettor time. I think you have rebuild kits on order? Not I. Have you confused the unforgettable, inimitable me with some other geezer? Going by Larry's 2010 appraisal of the carbs I shouldn't think they were needed. If so we'll tackle this after you've fitted them. In the meantime make sure you have two colourtune plugs and a carbalancer if you wish - I simply use that piece of hose stethoscope to listen to the intake hiss. Been thinking of buying them - now must toss up whether to take the car to the Rover club gaffer or purchase the stuff myself.

Enjoy! ???
 
If the fellow in your local Rover club is highly recommended, then he may be the best option Warren, especially as he is close by. As I say, I am quite happy though if you do decide to give them a crack yourself.

From what you describe, they sound a long way from being as they should.

Ron.
 
I'll do the simple stuff like brakes tomorrow, Ron. But I really think that the carburettors are the main suspect, and it may save me an awful lot of hassle just to have the right person look at them. The problem is, as I've found, getting somebody who knows and understands them. I'm really loathe to throw good money after bad, and there's already been some bad money disappear down the carburettor toilet.
 
Hi, can I offer a word of caution? Don't assume because something is new that it is perfect,
I have learnt this over the years. just check it as if you have never seen it before and
satisfy yourself.

Good luck, you must be due some soon :wink:

Colin
 
In that case, Warren, it's time to order a full rebuild kit and new needles for the carbs. Get a set of standard needles, a set as recommended by Richy rockdemon and a set slightly less rich than those. Enjoy!

Chris
 
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