Do I have seats that will fit inertia belts? - Check the pho

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Brian-Northampton

Administrator
All,
I've been searching the archives on fitting inertia seatbelts to my series 2 2000TC. I found out that there are two types of seats - those that only take static belts, and those adapted to allow an inertia reel - mostly series 2.

I ask my question, because my series 2 is from April 1971, and therefore fits into the "series 1½" category.

So from the photos below, can anyone tell me if inertia seatbelts will fit?

Thanks,
Brian.

seatbelt1.jpg
seatbelt2.jpg
seatbelt3.jpg
seatbelt4.jpg




Edited By Brian-Northampton on 1214751701
 
At least in theory, the answer is no! Can't see clearly from the photo's, but it appears you have what is often described as S1 seats, ie with the upholstered back and the roll of crash padding at the top of the backrest. These are somewhat fatter at the base next to the seatbelt mount than S2 seats which have a separate fibreglass panel to the rear of the backrest secured by a single large chromed screw. These S2 seats give somewhat more kneeroom in the rear as well as having the sides of the backrest wasted in the area where the inertia reel mounts. The inertia reel also mounts a little higher up the B post than the fixed belts you have and there is a threaded tube in the B post at the appropriate point. It's not clear to me what the chageover date is for cars to have this threaded tube - it doesn't necessarily coincide with the switch to S2 seats, which is any case inconsistant between different trim colours. (eg Buckskin changes to S2 much earlier than for instance Mango with a range of minimum 6 months perhaps as much as 1 year) So the only way to tell if you have the threaded sleeve is to take the trim finisher off and have a look!

So in theory you need to change the seats for S2's and there is a risk you will have to weld in the threaded mounting tubes. BUT, I know there are quite a few cars out there which do have S1 seats and inertia reels. I've just never had the chance of a real close look and a chat as to how the conversion was done. My Father fitted aftermarket inertia reels in our '65 2000 and both our '72 TC and early '73 3500S had them from new in combination with S1 style seats, so there must be a way. I was too young then to really take note or realise anything unusual was going on so I don't remember any detail beyond that!

Anyone out there done this conversion without going the full S2 route?

Chris
 
If you measure between the door pillar and the seat where the inertia belt would be fitted ISTR you need 60mm clearance to fit a slimline belt which Securon supply. If you contact them they will give you the exact measurement.
I know Barry Cox had a pair fitted to his early (ish) series 2 which originally had static belts. (And very nice they looked too!) He should be able to give you part numbers, or if not I can either get the numbers, or possibly even get someone to supply the belts.
 
Many thanks for your opinions Gents, you've confirmed what I thought. To be honest, until I started researching the forum archives, I never knew there was a difference in S1 and S2 seats! Can anyone publish a photo of a S2 seat with the cutout - that would not just help me out, but also others who search the forum on the same topic.

I'll make some enquiries with Securon about any slimline reels that they might have, but failing that, I have only two options.

1) Does my style of seat (would you call it flat pleat?) come in the S2 variety? I like this style, and if so, maybe I could find a second hand front set that would enable me to use inertia reels.

2) Buy new static belts. The main benefit from this would be the buckle end on a flexible stalk rather than on an annoying piece of webbing that disappears into the rear passenger footwell. Might also have a new hook mechanism as I've lost one of mine (separate post) and these seem to be very difficult to replace as the design changed alot.

cheers,
Brian.
 
Sounds lie you have a set of Irvin's! Rover were actually quite po-faced about this topic at the time. The Irvin's were actully aircraft quality and Rover had specified them from aircraft practice long before seat belts were common (I'm not sure if they were first to fit them but certainly very early). When the rest of the industry woke up to what a good idea they were, a standard duly emerged that belts should be able to be secured with one hand - hence the transmission tunnel stalks we have now. Rover fought tooth and nail against this on the grounds that Irvin like belts could not use a single stalk because of the separate adjustments for the lap portion and the diagonal portion. They also contended that the Irvin type buckle was significantly more secure than the stalk type fixing. They were of course right in this, but as we all now realise a belt worn is far more effective than a belt hanging on the B post! Perhaps Rover had a particularely rosy view of the intelligence and common sense of their customers!

Chris
 
Brian,

It looks like you have 'series 1' seats. The 'series 1.5' seats were the same but had a chromed plate screwed to the side to allow an inertia reel seat belt to be fitted to the b/c post without fouling the seat.

However, in my previous V8 (1971 S) I fitted a nice set of seats just like yours (without the plates) with inertia reel belts. They were maybe a little close but didn't give me any problems over the 11 years I had it!

By the way Chris, my current series 1 V8 has the Irvin belts you mention. The aircraft connection is interesting....When we got the car there was a 'parachute' type badge on the driver's belt buckle & we thought the previous owner had put it on. We then found another under the carpets & stuck it on the other side buckle - on closer examination they are Irvin's logo of some description!

Cheers,

Phil. :D
 
Hi Phil

Of course one of the beneficial side effects of Rover's obsession with aircraft style seat belts was the superb ergonomics of the P6 driving experience - in English that means you could reach everything! For a late 50's designed car the dashboard layout is simply outstanding. And I bet it had a fair bit to do with all the development drivers being rigidly belted up back into ther seats. If they'd had inertias then the temptation to mount switches more than a stretch away would have been too great!

I'm interested by your floating of the existence of an S1.5 seat. To date I was only aware of the two styles - ie S1 with wide and upholstered backrest and S2 with swaged and fibreglass panel backed backrest. You seem to be saying that there is an intermediate style with the backrest swaged to accomodate the inertia reel but still with the uphoilstered back?

Chris
 
Hi Chris,

I suppose I am, but have never thought about it really.

I've just nipped into the garage to take these pictures of a spare seat I have:

2lmnioy.jpg

302x9o1.jpg

2uftwcw.jpg


My first P6 - a 1972 2000TC had seats like these & I assumed they were normal. The ones I got for my last V8S were without the plates which I thought were just early seats.

This thread also brings me onto another point - the spares I have are to tidy up for my Series 1 V8 as they have headrest slots. Seats without the slots have significantly thinner backs which won't modify very well. My V8 has no headrest provision, like my '64 2000 (the very long term project in the background).

Interesting.....

Phil. :)
 
Well that's pretty convincing evidence! One of the things I enjoy about my Rover hobby is that no matter how expert you might appear there's always something new to learn! I wonder when the "S1.5" seat was introduced? I bet it wasn't anything simple like coincident with the introduction of the S2!!

I was interested by your comment about S1 (and S1.5!) seats with headrest slots being wider (deeper?). They are pretty rare and not having seen with and without next to each other this had not occured to me before. I know Ian Wilson (IanP6man) has modified a small number of seats with headrest slots robbed from elsewhere - I wonder if he has noticed this?

Chris
 
My TC was a relatively late 2000 (December '72) & I remember commenting when I was restitching the driver's seat that the date of the seat manufacture was September 1972. It was stamped inside somewhere.

The car had some series 1.5 features (curved choke / petrol reserve) but of course normal plate badges, not the part-script of the first ser 2 2000's. It was also Scarab Blue, which was new I think for what was a '73 season car.

Regarding the headrest provision, I'll post some photos of both backs together when I can.

Cheers,

Phil. :D
 
Hi Phil - thanks for posting those photos. Your S1½ seats are absolutely identical to my seats except for the plate screwed into the side. Including the pleating, seat backs, headrest slots and blanking plates, and the chrome plate at the hinge of the seat. That looks like a simple conversion for S1 seats to pull the side in just enough for an inertia reel.

My series 1½ is an April 1971, which has the script Rover and 2000 letters instead of the plated versions - and I'm sure many other S1 features yet to uncover!

Brian.
 
Gents,

These are the measurements for the thickness of the seat-backs ('squabs'):

30hqanb.jpg


23hb1it.jpg


There's certainly more to P6's than meets the eye!

Cheers,

Phil.
 
Have just noticed the following item on ebay: 300238768780

The seat has a plate - but not horizontally fixed!

Phil. ???
 
I've just asked the seller a question, and apparently these seemingly series 1½ seats (series 1 with a plate) came out of a 1973 S2 2000 with static seat belts .........

Brian.
 
To my knowledge the seats with the modified squab (stainless plate) were brought in for the S2 season to enable inertia reel seatbelts to be fitted. These were continued through to the end of 1973, when the front seats were replaced by the box pleat pattern seats with the thinner backrests and thicker cushions (for the facelifted S2). My S2 V8 was registered in Feb 1973, and this has the seats with the stainless steel plate on the side of the squab.

Part of the confusion I feel is that due to the interchangeability of seats you commonly see early Series 2 models with facelift (post 73) seats. I suspect that some owners are not that discerning of the differences and fit good seats from a broken P6 to replace their worn out seats? ???
 
Saw a K-reg TC last night with plates on the seats to allow Inertia reel belts. Seemed like the original interior......

Phil. :)
 
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