electronic ingnition guidance - what is EDIS?
- Thread starter bandito
- Start date
webmaster
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EDIS - Electronic Distributorless Ignition System , i.e. you don't have a dizzy at all, the spark plugs are fed directly from the coils, originally 2 double ended coils but now usually a 4 output coil block is used (for a 4 pot engine) Some systems even have 1 coil for each plug, even to the point were the coil is mounted on top of the plug so no HT lead at all ! ( coils often fail due to heat though ! )
The timing is controlled by a computer, taking a signal from the crank along with a throttle pot or MAP sensor (or both) to work out load. There is usually a map to dictate the spark timing from these signals.
If you prefer to keep the engine standard or at least standard looking, then the Lumenition Magnetronic system is apparently very good and fits within your distributor so you don't even see it. This is not EDIS, but rather an electronic points replacement system, so you never need to adjust points or worry about condensor break down again. This still relies on the bob-weights and vac adjance on the distributor, so you need to be sure those parts of your distributor are working.
Edited By webmaster on 1165433476
The timing is controlled by a computer, taking a signal from the crank along with a throttle pot or MAP sensor (or both) to work out load. There is usually a map to dictate the spark timing from these signals.
If you prefer to keep the engine standard or at least standard looking, then the Lumenition Magnetronic system is apparently very good and fits within your distributor so you don't even see it. This is not EDIS, but rather an electronic points replacement system, so you never need to adjust points or worry about condensor break down again. This still relies on the bob-weights and vac adjance on the distributor, so you need to be sure those parts of your distributor are working.
Edited By webmaster on 1165433476
webmaster
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Why not ?, the good thing with these systems is that you can take them from car to car, just put the old dizzy and/or carbs back on before you sell it.
If in the meantime it gives you a good improvement in economy (which it can easily do), and makes the car more of a pleasure to drive, sounds like a good idea to me.
Edited By webmaster on 1165490309
If in the meantime it gives you a good improvement in economy (which it can easily do), and makes the car more of a pleasure to drive, sounds like a good idea to me.
Edited By webmaster on 1165490309
I suspect Bandito was looking for a cheap fix. Do you recall waht happened to the Boyer Bransden ignition kit ? I made up a Maplins kit which uses the points to switch a power transistor to fire the coil .£9.99 and an hour's work. The points then take a minimal current and last for ages.The condenser is not needed
webmaster
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I had one of the Maplin kits, dead easy to build and fit, and as you say offloads most of the current from the points, although doesn't stop them slipping etc..
Link to Maplin Kit
I thought maplin had killed all its kits but there it is !
Link to Maplin Kit
I thought maplin had killed all its kits but there it is !
Pilkie
Active Member
hi all
The reason I drive 70's classics is that they are proper basic,classic car motoring,and on the whole easy and cheap to maintain yourself
and they dont loose you pots of £££'s in depreciation,and in main dealers,got you by the balls price rip offs!!!!!
I do not want to drive a mobile computer :angry:
or have to get a diagnostic laptop plugged in for ££'s to tell me how much £££'s its going to cost to fix it :angry:
My company have just relocated,40 mls round trip!!and have said heres £5k go buy a modern car,and stay with us for 3yrs and you do not have to pay it back!!
and we will give you,10p a mile!! :O
A bribe! ???
!! I said,why!what for! ive got 2 cars and I dont need another,make me redundant!!
unless,,,,,
MMMM could buy a mk2 jag!!
NO!!
Got no more space!!
and I dont want to travel 45mins,1 gallon, each way!!
I am used to 2 miles or a brisk wake up walk in the morning!!
If you are into racing them,then maybe some "period performance mods" may help,but for normal everyday use,keep it simple,basic and cheap!!
I know there are some,modernised,customised more like!! old car types out there,with the,,,,slammed to the ground!!! roof chopped down or off!!!smoothed out!!! and big 4x4 blinging wheels!! but to me, those cars have been, COMPLETELY RAPED!! of their very soul!!
I suppose they do have their place, but that is in a custom car mag!!
Sorry webmaster!!
The reason I drive 70's classics is that they are proper basic,classic car motoring,and on the whole easy and cheap to maintain yourself
and they dont loose you pots of £££'s in depreciation,and in main dealers,got you by the balls price rip offs!!!!!I do not want to drive a mobile computer :angry:
or have to get a diagnostic laptop plugged in for ££'s to tell me how much £££'s its going to cost to fix it :angry:
My company have just relocated,40 mls round trip!!and have said heres £5k go buy a modern car,and stay with us for 3yrs and you do not have to pay it back!!
and we will give you,10p a mile!! :O
A bribe! ???
!! I said,why!what for! ive got 2 cars and I dont need another,make me redundant!!
unless,,,,,
MMMM could buy a mk2 jag!!
NO!!
Got no more space!!
and I dont want to travel 45mins,1 gallon, each way!!
I am used to 2 miles or a brisk wake up walk in the morning!!
If you are into racing them,then maybe some "period performance mods" may help,but for normal everyday use,keep it simple,basic and cheap!!
I know there are some,modernised,customised more like!! old car types out there,with the,,,,slammed to the ground!!! roof chopped down or off!!!smoothed out!!! and big 4x4 blinging wheels!! but to me, those cars have been, COMPLETELY RAPED!! of their very soul!!
I suppose they do have their place, but that is in a custom car mag!!
Sorry webmaster!!
You wont get a MK2 Jag for 5 Grand! Not a chance.
You might get a Daimler V8 though (same chassis, different engine) A mint one would be £6.5k.
I don't see the problem with updating cars to modern performance levels. Whilst a reasonably good car in its day the P6 is embarrased on the road, even the V8 models by your average hatchback. Acceleration in a 4 cylinder car must be like living in eastbourne!
I think the important thing to remember is that if you own a car you can do what ever you like to it.
You could own the most well preserved, most original, most everything P6 left in the world... and you are still within your rights to stick an axe through the windscreen. Why? Cuz its yours and the opinion of everyone else should make no difference. Obviously we need concourse museum quality cars as the bench mark for others to use for reference when completing restorations. I think there is a place for both types of classic. I have a penchent for V8's... people suffer my hobby so I am quite happy to suffer theirs!
You might get a Daimler V8 though (same chassis, different engine) A mint one would be £6.5k.
I don't see the problem with updating cars to modern performance levels. Whilst a reasonably good car in its day the P6 is embarrased on the road, even the V8 models by your average hatchback. Acceleration in a 4 cylinder car must be like living in eastbourne!
I think the important thing to remember is that if you own a car you can do what ever you like to it.
You could own the most well preserved, most original, most everything P6 left in the world... and you are still within your rights to stick an axe through the windscreen. Why? Cuz its yours and the opinion of everyone else should make no difference. Obviously we need concourse museum quality cars as the bench mark for others to use for reference when completing restorations. I think there is a place for both types of classic. I have a penchent for V8's... people suffer my hobby so I am quite happy to suffer theirs!
webmaster
New Member
What I get up to in my garage is my business
You have to be carefull with the modifications you make as they all effect your insurance, I had no problems insuring my previous convertible complete with home made engine management system, but it cost roughly 3 times as much as it would for a standard example.
I suspect a bolt on, Lumenition type system would have no effect, but a full ECU or EDIS system would be a different story. And if you start swapping for a modern engine then it really ramps up.
And remember, check out the insurance issues BEFORE you make the mods, I know a couple of people who have done engine swaps etc, then found out how much the insurance is, and ended up breaking the cars !!
I know its a bit cold but, a car is a car, its a lump of metal, plastic, rubber and a lot of rust. How much emotional attachment you put on it is up to you, I certainly shed a tear when I scrapped my original convertible, but at the end of the day it was just a car.
webmaster
New Member
Sorry, forgot to add that the only real problem finding a good modern engine to go in is finding a rear drive one. Obviously most engine these days are front drive, and many were actually designed to be front drive only from the start.
Best bet is to try and think of all the rear drive cars, then see what you can find in the breakers or selling cheap, or damaged/repairables can often be a cheap way to get a modern engine.
Your better off having the whole car as a donor, then you know its a good runner, and can get all the parts you need off it.
I guess common options may be, Vauxhall Omega, BMW 3/5 series, Ford Grandad (bit old now), er er anybody suggest some more ? If your not looking for ultimate performance then a decent modern 2ltr engine will give you similar performance to a 2.2TC or V8 auto, and significantly better mpg especially with a 5 speed box.
And what about a nice modern Turbo Diesel ?
Edited By webmaster on 1165840013
Best bet is to try and think of all the rear drive cars, then see what you can find in the breakers or selling cheap, or damaged/repairables can often be a cheap way to get a modern engine.
Your better off having the whole car as a donor, then you know its a good runner, and can get all the parts you need off it.
I guess common options may be, Vauxhall Omega, BMW 3/5 series, Ford Grandad (bit old now), er er anybody suggest some more ? If your not looking for ultimate performance then a decent modern 2ltr engine will give you similar performance to a 2.2TC or V8 auto, and significantly better mpg especially with a 5 speed box.
And what about a nice modern Turbo Diesel ?
Edited By webmaster on 1165840013
To keep it in the family: Rover KV6, K4 (with or without VVC)
Forign engines: Volvo straight six turbo - think 740 / 900 , Small block chevvy? what about a ford V8 like you get in the MGZT 260?
What about the possibility of canibalising an SD1? There were 4 cylinder versions of that I think?
Is there much scope for improving the original 4 pot? Big valves, gas flow the head, bore out the ports? EDIS roller rockers?
Forign engines: Volvo straight six turbo - think 740 / 900 , Small block chevvy? what about a ford V8 like you get in the MGZT 260?
What about the possibility of canibalising an SD1? There were 4 cylinder versions of that I think?
Is there much scope for improving the original 4 pot? Big valves, gas flow the head, bore out the ports? EDIS roller rockers?
webmaster
New Member
I think the suggestion was for a cheap engine swap to something very modern.
Wouldn't touch a KV6 or K4 for that matter, you'd be on edge all the time wondering when the head gasket would blow ! Plus you need some expensive bits and pieces for RWD.
SD1 engines are too old.
I'm thinking something like a Vaux 2ltr Ecotec, or Ford Zetec they're nice and easy to find and cheap !, doesn't the zetec bolt straight up to a type 9 box ?, Ecotec probably bolts straight onto Carlton/Omega box.
Those 75 v8's are already changing hands for < £10k, another few years and they'll be giving them away, or they'll instantly achieve classic status and never drop below £5k, making the engines too expensive again.
Modifications to the standard engine are out of the window, far too expensive !
Wouldn't touch a KV6 or K4 for that matter, you'd be on edge all the time wondering when the head gasket would blow !
Plus you need some expensive bits and pieces for RWD.SD1 engines are too old.
I'm thinking something like a Vaux 2ltr Ecotec, or Ford Zetec they're nice and easy to find and cheap !, doesn't the zetec bolt straight up to a type 9 box ?, Ecotec probably bolts straight onto Carlton/Omega box.
Those 75 v8's are already changing hands for < £10k, another few years and they'll be giving them away, or they'll instantly achieve classic status and never drop below £5k, making the engines too expensive again.
Modifications to the standard engine are out of the window, far too expensive !
webmaster
New Member
Here you go, ebay item number 110065770402
2.5ltr V6 Vaux Omega engine and 5 speed box, includes all loom, ecu etc... £250 buy it now.
170bhp jobs a good 'un
The 2ltr is 134bhp, so still better than any non-v8 p6.
Edited By webmaster on 1165843880
2.5ltr V6 Vaux Omega engine and 5 speed box, includes all loom, ecu etc... £250 buy it now.
170bhp jobs a good 'un
The 2ltr is 134bhp, so still better than any non-v8 p6.
Edited By webmaster on 1165843880
A lot of modern engines have distributors fitted to the end of the camshaft which is no good when you install it lengthways
So you need a modern engine with individual coil ignition and the sump bowl in the right place
I don't know if a modern engine affects tax exempt status if it's the only mod
So you need a modern engine with individual coil ignition and the sump bowl in the right place
I don't know if a modern engine affects tax exempt status if it's the only mod
Modern engine will not affect tax exempt status. The only requirement for tax exempt status is that the vehicle was manufactured before january 1st 73. Doesnt matter if you register the car tommorow so long as you can prove the build date e.g heritage certificate.
As to "Wouldn't touch a KV6 or K4 for that matter, you'd be on edge all the time wondering when the head gasket would blow !" Understand your concerns re the K4 but those problems have been ironed out. However the KV6 engines do not blow headgaskets.
As to "Wouldn't touch a KV6 or K4 for that matter, you'd be on edge all the time wondering when the head gasket would blow !" Understand your concerns re the K4 but those problems have been ironed out. However the KV6 engines do not blow headgaskets.
steveg1664
New Member
Having been down the EDIS/Throttle Body route on a Toyota F3 engine I can assure you that, unless you have one of the engines (Ford Zetec or Vauxhall XE) that they make bespoke kits for, it is anything but easy. If you want a good cheap alternative ignition then do what I did and get a used Magnetronic or Aldon system of Ebay, fitted in ten minutes and yes they do give a performance gain if you then set your timing up correctly. If you want a more modern engine then surely the Rover T series, ideally turbo, is the way to go as there are already kits for fitting these to RWD cars available including bellhousings for SD1 and LandRover boxes.