Front Pulley

quattro

quattro

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I have had a good look around under the car over the weekend, especially looking for oil leaks.

I know the sump gasket is leaking and a new one is on the way.

There is also a thin film of oil on a lot of the engine and bottom of the gearbox, and it is difficult to work out where it is coming from. Some of this has formed little droplets on bolt heads and parts of the moulding where there is no bolt or any other type of fixing. i.e. no way oil can get there directly from the inside of the engine, and nowhere above it where it could have dripped down.

There is however a small seepage on the seal behind the front pulley. I am of the opinion that the seal has failed and is dripping and being atomised by the pulley, sending a fine spray backwards. This could be part of the odour I am getting from the engine bay. I have never had one of these go before, is it a common thing? Or, is there another fault which can give this symptom? I can't see anything above the pulley which coul be running down the front cover onto the pulley.

Anyone changed one of these - is it a pig of a job? :?
 
I seem to remember Sparky has a newish engine? If so, it might not be too bad a job.

You need the rad out and the fan off. If you've got a mechanical fuel pump, unbolt it from the front cover and move it to the side, no need to disconnect the fuel lines. Mark the dizzy body relative to the rotor arm, and when you refit the timing cover set the rotor arm about 30 degrees before the mark to allow for the skew gears. Probably best to set it at #1 TDC before you start, so you know where you are and don't turn the crank. You'll need to double check the timing anyway.

I had a right battle with the long water pump bolts and the front pulley had taken root on the crank...thought it'd never move! The pulley bolt can be a challenge too, but I got a cheapish impact wrench off Amazon and it worked a treat. :)

Good luck!
 
I'd just add to that and say that the sump gasket also has a section under the timing cover so the best plan is to get the pulley and timing cover off first and replace your pulley seal. Then take the sump off and clean where needed (you'll get water dripping from the pump down the block into the sump when you take the timing cover off). Then replace the timing cover and finally replace the sump.

2 hours tops!!
 
I have just spoken to RPI and looked through the SD1 book of laughs.

Apparently the seal is the same as all later Rover V8s from SD1 onwards and can be applied from the outside :?: i.e. the timing cover can stay on :D

We'll see
 
I wasn't sure if your engine had a rope seal or a rubber one. There's no way you can replace the rope one in situ having fitted one with the timing cover on the bench last Saturday.

Wouldn't have thought the rubber one would be leaking so soon though? It would be worth checking the fuel pump gasket too if you have an AC mechanical pump.
 
testrider said:
I wasn't sure if your engine had a rope seal or a rubber one. There's no way you can replace the rope one in situ having fitted one with the timing cover on the bench last Saturday.

Wouldn't have thought the rubber one would be leaking so soon though? It would be worth checking the fuel pump gasket too if you have an AC mechanical pump.
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It's a rubber one and electric fuel pump.

Apparently they can start to leak early in their life if you don't drive it much. The rubber will bond to the rubber if left idle for months at a time and will then tear and burn the seal on start up. I don't know how long Sparky has been left around not driven prior to Septmeber last year so can only assume that this was the cause.
 
quattro said:
The rubber will bond to the rubber if left idle for months at a time and will then tear and burn the seal on start up. I don't know how long Sparky has been left around not driven prior to Septmeber last year so can only assume that this was the cause.
Click to expand...

That's why the area where the lip of the seal runs should be coated with a light smear of Anti-Scuffing Paste during assembly.

I don't know if it's even still available, but I still have a smidgen in a tin from about 30 years ago, so I'm all right. It was used on the gearbox output flange and pinion flange as well.
 
DaveHerns said:
Could be worth checking all the breathers are unblocked before pulling it all apart
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Brilliant idea :)

I have to wonder why I miss these things sometimes.

The breathers were made up of some old heater pipes which were not quite full of poo, but nearly. I actually took them off about a week or so ago and have just finished replacing them with a nicer looking silicone hose. Have washed the flame traps out as well.

I have been to Halfords today ( :? ) and bought some of their Classic 20W-50 oil which smells like oil used to, and is green, like the old Duckhams Q (IIRC).

With the thicker oil, an additive which is supposed to cure oil leaks?(already in the Classic stuff, not something I have added), tightened sump bolts, and crossed fingers, I am hoping that it will stop leaking and all be well again.

Ah! optimism - what a wonderful thing :)
 
Quattro

How did you get on with this oil leak from earlier this year?

I've got a similar situation with my car in that it leaks oil from somewhere at the front, timing cover?, front crank? I'm not too sure yet but sometimes it leaves a few spots and other times it leaves a sizeable patch irrespective of the amount of oil in it. I'm purposefully keeping the oil level on the low side to try to keep leakage to a minimum but I need to do something about it before BP or Shell identify it as an alternative source and start drilling :D :shock:

I'm also getting oil sprayed back onto all sorts of bolt heads and other areas etc, which certainly keeps the underside well rust-proofed, but doesn't do a lot for my chances of identifying any other leaks that I might have.

I know individual circumstances differ but I'm curious to know if using Halfords Classic 20W-50, with its additive to help with leaks, and tightening the sump bolts helped.

Cheers

Dave
 
Hi Quattro,

Now that you've carried out some preventive maintenance, I guess visual inspections are underway? I was thinking, if you're not impartial to a bit of detective work, how's about degreasing, cleaning and wiping the engine nice and dry, and then a spot of your favourite driving with visual inspections at various intervals? That way you should see the droplets forming, running, streaking and moving about. You'd have to get under the car a lot, but it's an inexpensive way to source a leak.
 
Tightening the sump bolts (some were so loose that I could tighten them by hand) certainly helped, and the Halfords oil stopped the rest, well almost. There is a small spot under the front seal still. As I intend to remove the engine over the winter, I have put up with it for the time being. I will remove and replace the seal when the engine is out (will remove the pulley when it is in though).

I will take the sump bolts out and have a good look inside, then put the bolts back in with some screwlock to stop them shaking loose. (Got a load of screw lock 222 in stock that someone ordered by mistake :? )

I am fitting a PCV Valve, which apparently helps with oil leaks as it promotes a slight negative pressure in the crankcase. Will see how that goes :)
 
two things I noticed on my sump were (i) the flange face was not very flat and I had to bend the lip to bring square. If you place a straight edge (spirit level) across you'll probably see highs and lows, which I straightened by bending up (or down) the flange face as I worked around it with the straight edge. this would mean, if you use the cork/neoprene gasket, you would be squeezing it on the inner edge before the outer point starts to touch (or visa versa) if you didn't straighten the flange, and (ii) the spring washers on the sump bolts looked past their prime, as it were, compared to a new spring washer. but as the spring washers are crimped on the bolts so as not to loose them when refitting (presumably) you would have to use other standard bolts (5/16unc x 3/4") with new spring washers. The same for the two rear bolts and (5/16unc x 1") which is what I intend to do. Maybe these two problems cause oil leaks as the cork gasket is prone to failure with over tightening at a pinch point. I have both the cork/neoprene type and the one made from normal flat gasket material (which came with the gasket set) and am still deciding which to use but favouring the latter and use of a gasket sealant. I did even contemplate using both by having the gasket material one on the pan first to have it as a backing for the cork one, but I don't know, any thoughts. Ideally Rover should have followed the "all alloy" engine concept through and had made a cast ally sump with a proper machined gasket face (or does such a mod exist?)

Regards,
 
Hello Scott,

Rover ( Land Rover * ) provided aluminium alloy sumps for their Range Rovers, but although the footprint is identical regardless of engine capacity, the sump size precludes installation into the P6 engine bay. The sumps have a greater capacity, and their shape will foul the P6 front cross member.

From 1998 onwards, Land Rover changed the practice of using sump gaskets and proceeded with metal to metal installation using only a sealer. Such a process was backdated to include Rover V8 engines of all capacities,...3,5, 3.9, 4.0, 4.2 and 4.6 litre.

The process is....Remove all traces of old sealant from mating faces of engine block and sump. Clean mating faces with suitable solvent and apply a bead of Hylosil Type 101 or 106 sealant to sump joint face. Do not spread sealand bead. Sump must be fitted immediately after applying sealant. Fit sump, taking care not to damage sealant bead.

My 4.6 has my P6 sump installed in this manner, and 28 months and 22,000 miles later there is not a single oil leak.... :D

Ron.

N. B : * Land Rover assembled and supplied all Rover V8 engines from 1972 onwards for inclusion is Rover cars, Land and Range Rovers, military vehicles and all derivatives.
 
Thanks Ron, that sounds like a better idea than relying on a gasket to seal properly, i'll source some hylosil...

I didn't know about the landy and rangie sumps, and my dad used to have a 2000 P6 but can't remember a cast sump on it (mind you it was a while ago)

Regards,
 
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