Fuel Vapourisation and ambient temperature

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
When your car has experienced the tell tale signs of fuel vaporisation,..stuttering, bucking and then almost no power at all,..what have been your observations? What was the coolant temperature when this occured? What was your impression of the ambient temperature and what do you estimate it to have been?

Is your car fitted with a mechanical fuel pump or an electric pump? If the latter, where is it located?

Ron.
 
Hi Ron,

i am only experiencing the problems when we have higher temperatures over here (20 C plus). In colder conditions i can drive the car for long periods on the autobahn and it runs fine. The problem only occurs after extensive periods of high speed driving. When i am driving country roads with mild speeds (<100 km/h), then i can run the car for hours in hot weather and nothing happens. I checked the petrol tank for possible vaccum buildup, but that is not the case.

I assume that i am suffering from a milder form of fuel vapourisation here, which may be curable without moving the fuel pump to the back of the car.
What i did not check yet is the fuel filter in the tank. I assume there is no blockage there, but if the problem persists, i may have to check that too.

Temperature gauge is more or less always staying in the beginning of the green section, it never moves even near the middle of the gauge.
Fuel pump is a pierburg sucker pump type, located where the mechanical pump was (very near to the left cylinder bank).

CU Olaf
 
I've had vapour lock that has stopped the car about 3 or 4 times and also experienced it another 3 or 4 where I was able to keep moving long enough for it to clear. All of which have been with the AC mechanical pump and a fixed, propeller type, rad fan.

Most times that the engine stopped fully were caused by sitting in traffic for upwards of 15minutes on warmish (18 degrees C or above). I also had one occurrance of it last year when driving up the Furka Pass in the Alps. Near the top I had to stop for a herd of cows to cross the road and I decided to switch off the engine whilst they crossed. Upon restarting I only made it about 500mm before the engine died. It took about an hour and twenty to cool enough that it would restart and run cleanly. The air temperature was about 10 degrees C but we were more than 2500m above sea level so maybe altitude played a part too. The needle on the engine temperature gauge was over the number 8 of 85.

I had a few stuttery type incidents too but mostly they were at junctions or toll booths when coming off motorways. Again, the air temperature would be no more than 20 degrees C and the needle of the engine temperature gauge would be no more than 85.

To complete the picture, I would say that my cooling system is in good order as I replaced the head gaskets last year and flushed the radiator. The hoses and thermostat are about 3 years old although I can't remember what temperature the thermostat is.

My understanding of the problem suggests that it has little to do with coolant temperature, more under bonnet temperatures in general and that pressurising the fuel line from the back of the car, rather than sucking fuel from the front of the car, will keep things running smoothly. I have now fitted an electric pump at the back but I haven't found myself in a car of traffic yet since to test the theory.

Did any of the export/NADA cars have AC mechanical pump and, if so, do they suffer the same problems?
 
The first time my Rover displayed symptoms of fuel vaporisation was in the Summer of 1986. I was on my P plates and had taken the Rover on a trip to northern N.S.W. On one hot day,..over 30 degrees C after having stopped at a "lookout" upon restarting the car bunny hopped a bit before settling down. At the time the Rover still had the original 2-core radiator from 1974 with no additional transmission oil cooler. The engine fan was and still is the 13 bladed nylon arrangement on a viscous coupling, which limits fan rotation to 2500 rpm. The fuel pump at this time was also the mechanical AC.

No further vaporisation occurred until 1990 when it hit out of the blue and continued well into 1991. My Rover along with scores of others that previously had little experience of such a phenomenon were now all in the same boat. I recall on one Winter's day. Overcast and 9 degrees C. The needle was in the white and it started to vapourise,..I mean seriously...how ridiculous. I stopped, opened the bonnet,...the carburettor dashpots were stone cold...and it was vaporising. :shock: It was like a bad joke and not amused I was.

In 1990 I fitted an electric fuel pump beneath the tank to run in series with the mechanical pump. Operated by a switch, it remains off until needed. The cooling system had always been well maintained, flushed with a new fill of coolant every 12 months. The thermostat at the time was an 82 degree C which was really too warm for hot Australian conditions. On one occasion while driving back from Melbourne in Summer of that year, the ambient temperature was 38 degrees C so in the car it was close to 50 degrees C...too hot,. it started to vaporise at 60mph.. :shock: I switched on the electric pump and it cleared immediately.

The following year the vaporisation problem disappeared. My Rover, a friend's Rover and all the people I knew from the Rover Owner's club...the problem vanished from their cars too. To this day it has never returned to my car. In 2007 not long before I had the 4.6 installed, I was driving through heavy traffic in Sydney, the ambient temperature was over 36 degrees C. The coolant temperature was just under 100 degrees C (almost nudging the red zone) and the engine oil temperature as measured in the coolest spot...in the bottom of the sump..reached 130 degrees C. Did it vaporise?....nope...did not miss a beat. With the 4.6..no problem either. I have been using 3 core radiators since the mid 1990s and a 74 degree thermostat to cope with the hot conditions and whilst driving last Summer, long trips over hundreds of miles, coolant temperature needle between the 8 and 5...engine oil temperature...100 degrees C...no problem at all. The fuel pump is still the mechanical AC, as I wished to retain it, even for the 4.6. The electric pump sits quietly, but I switch it on every now and then to make sure it still works, and then off again.

My view is that the problem at the time was directly related to the fuel, and what ever it was that caused the problem..was corrected. It affected so many Rovers at the same time and then just disappeared.

As for why Rovers in much cooler environs would experience such I can only point the finger at the fuel. I don’t dismiss other possibilities such as the cooling system, which should always be kept in good condition if reliability and longevity it to be expected. I feel however that the major cause is in the fuel.

You might be wondering if that is indeed the case why don’t modern cars also experience this. I can only imagine that it is directly related to the means with which the fuel is provided to the engine. Fuel injection system systems run at much higher pressures, and that will prevent vaporisation from occurring.

Ron
 
Ron I beleive you have given a fair summation of the reasons, and your timeline for vapourisation coincides pretty much with what I have experienced in NZ. My radiator like yours had had its entire life filled with antifreeze in a proportion that would allow it to not freeze in Siberia and there is no corrosion or crud accumulated in the cooling system, in the 90's I fitted an electric fuel pump and my problems went away (at least whilst I still ran SU carbs). I think you have hit it on the head by saying that fuel pressurization systems act against the problem. What amazes me is the low temps that the problem can occur, with my infrared themometer I have problems at 33 degrees measured on the fuel lines and electric fuel pump and carb :shock:

As an aside I talked with a previous owner of my car, he experienced vapour lock driving up hills when the car was quite new only about 3 or 4 years old so its not an age issue.

Graeme
 
ghce wrote,...
What amazes me is the low temps that the problem can occur, with my infrared themometer I have problems at 33 degrees measured on the fuel lines and electric fuel pump and carb

Hello Graeme,

I assume this is at present with your Weber carburettor? What fuel line pressure does the Weber require? Do you have to run a regulator? Is the fuel pump that is required of the constant flow or stop start variety?

To me low temperature problems and vapour lock indicate fuel problems, but I imagine that the fuel in New Zealand is no different to what we use here in Australia, and certainly my engine even with the mechanical fuel pump, sitting in traffic with 90 degrees or more on the gauge shows no indication of vapourisation at all. I have not relocated my fuel lines either, the tap behind the engine, the line across the back of the engine and alongside the block,..its still all there. If it was going to vapourise from excess heat then the opportunity is most certainly there, but it doesn't.

Ron.
 
Yes this is with the Weber and I lay blame fair and squarely with it!, The SU's did not have the problem once I put the electric fuel pump in, it used to miss at low speeds in summer in slow traffic hence the electric conversion. From memory the Weber copes with a max psi of 5 or 6.
I have recently returned to a fuel re-circulating system in the hope of alleviating the problem, no such luck however.

Graeme
 
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