Have I really got a 2000?

[darth sidious]

I'll bow to your knowledge, that's quite useful information!

How hard is it to change the differential mountings to 2200 types? I'm still a bit suspicious that the car is K reg, yet it's more likely a 73/74 2200! Perhaps a ploy to get free tax?

BTW, call me Ant!

 

[harveyp6]

How hard is it to change the differential mountings to 2200 types?

Difficult because the base unit is different and you'd need to cut a big chunk of the floor out and replace it with the same amount cut from the donor car.

 

[darth sidious]

How hard is it to change the differential mountings to 2200 types?

Difficult because the base unit is different and you'd need to cut a big chunk of the floor out and replace it with the same amount cut from the donor car.

Thanks, I thought that too (I'm no expert though!)

So we have:-

Scenario 1: The car was a 2000SC, someone has changed the dashboard and 'top' (and likely changed the wiring), changed/modified the base unit (difficult and likely expensive) to 2200 specs, fitted a 2200TC engine, changed the throttle linkages, changed the ignition barrel according to Nick (how can you tell that, BTW?), maybe changed to the rounded choke and pet res controls (our old 2000Auto K reg had the umbrella style), etc.

Scenario 2: The car was a 2200TC from build, somebody has changed the badging to 2000TC, changed the number plate, and likely changed the plate bearing the chassis number.

While I accept that the 2200 has superiority in many respects, surely changing the car to be almost totally 2200TC standard is overkill? Wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to just change the essentials (i.e. engine, linkages, possibly the wiring/dash, badging maybe (and informing DVLA!)) and not bother with the rest (especially the bush-mountings)?

Scenario 1 (IMHO I hasten to add) is unlikely. Scenario 2, however...

 

[NickDunning]

Just been speaking to Mark Gray and from the Club database the ENGINE can be tied down to between August 1975 and February 1976.
If the Cameron Green colour is original the car will pre-date the approx October 1975 introduction of the SD1 ill-fated paint process.

Cheers
Nick

 

[Adam Birch]

Right at the back of the car, on the lip inside the boot, concealed under the rubber lip, behind the spare wheel will be a Pressed Steel number, this can also be very revealing as to what the car is. Here's one, and no prizes Mr. Birch for identifying the car:



A shot of the interior would enlighten us a bit as well.

That's the Chatterbox's number

 

[ianfordcarr]

Taken all-in-all at this stage, I'm inclined to think that I have an as-built 2200TC. If it has the original engine, then Nick's info pins down its real age pretty accurately.

The V5 says it was registered 1/8/71 so, presumably at some stage after the government abandoned the rolling 25 year tax exemption in favour of a fixed 1/1/73, someone thought it would be a good idea to find a scrap car, in this case a '71ish 2000SC, swap the reg plates and chassis plate, request a replacement for a "lost" V5 and bingo - a tax free car!! Fairly easy I would think in the days before identity fraud became an issue.

I was interested in your comment about the colour Nick. The paintwork is certainly not original, although the shade could be, if you recognise it as a Rover colour - Cameron Green. Given the way its been applied (in many areas with what I assume is a tar brush!), I was going to look at my Dulux catalogue ......... But maybe I'm being unkind. Oddly though, a paint code sticker under the bonnet says Lunar grey.

Ian

 

[Adam Birch]

a paint code sticker under the bonnet says Lunar grey

If that paint sticker is the original, then that's another sign of it being a later car - lunar grey was available from August 1972 onwards to some time in 1975 - And it's one of my favourite P6 colours. Despite your car being a ringer, it is a 2200TC - which is quite a rare car nowadays; and in my own opinion, no 2200's deserve to be scrapped, whatever the reason.

I mentioned the Chatterbox - one of my own previous cars, that was a 2200TC, a joy to drive - even though the engine had seen the world and was calling for a rebuild. That's now gone to someone in Lancashire, who is obviously a 'Rover head' and is very pleased with her.

 

[ianfordcarr]

Today's developments have been fascinating. From knowing nothing about the car it's now acquiring a (slightly murky) history. If it had been a 4 year old ringer instead of a 40 (sorry, 36) and I'd paid mega bucks for it I would have been seriously concerned. But this background is all part of its charm - and won't have any effect on my long term plans to bring it back to its former glory. Indeed, it'll make a good story over dinner and I'd like to continue with the research.

There is still a legal issue to consider of course, but I will probably opt to square the DVLA records and then let sleeping dogs lie (an apt idiom for a Rover, I think), but any other comments are very welcome.

Ian

 

[darth sidious]

Today's developments have been fascinating. From knowing nothing about the car it's now acquiring a (slightly murky) history. If it had been a 4 year old ringer instead of a 40 (sorry, 36) and I'd paid mega bucks for it I would have been seriously concerned. But this background is all part of its charm - and won't have any effect on my long term plans to bring it back to its former glory. Indeed, it'll make a good story over dinner and I'd like to continue with the research.

There is still a legal issue to consider of course, but I will probably opt to square the DVLA records and then let sleeping dogs lie (an apt idiom for a Rover, I think), but any other comments are very welcome.

Ian

The only thing I would say is that DVLA/VOSA MIGHT insist on checking the car's identity. We had some problems with our G reg Astra in 2003 when we first bought it.

I know that the Astra is not a classic and maybe the fact that your car is a classic might make them less interested.

All the best, matey!

Ant.

 

[NickDunning]

That's the Chatterbox's number

I told you there were no prizes Mr. Birch!

Anyone with a higher 2000/2200 manual base unit number I'd like to hear from.

 

[NickDunning]

Today's developments have been fascinating. From knowing nothing about the car it's now acquiring a (slightly murky) history. If it had been a 4 year old ringer instead of a 40 (sorry, 36) and I'd paid mega bucks for it I would have been seriously concerned. But this background is all part of its charm - and won't have any effect on my long term plans to bring it back to its former glory. Indeed, it'll make a good story over dinner and I'd like to continue with the research.

There is still a legal issue to consider of course, but I will probably opt to square the DVLA records and then let sleeping dogs lie (an apt idiom for a Rover, I think), but any other comments are very welcome.

Ian

There's a bit of a moral issue with this as well. I'd certainly write to DVLA explaining what you have, and that it may be another car, and if they wish to take any action it's up to them, also stating you bought it in good faith and had no idea it may not be what it's supposed to be. That way you have a clear conscience about it. I seriously doubt they'd seize the car or similar. They might send someone out from the Club (either the RP6C or the RSR can help) with the V765 forms to establish exactly how old the car is.

I come across a lot of 'rung' cars, and it's got worse in the last year or so. Some of them are so blatant as well - particularily the person who turns up at the Mid Lincs Rover Rally with Rob Pinner's old 1976 VIP wearing 'J' plates.

There's a guy who used to turn up at Weston Park every year in a 2200 manual wearing 'J' plates. Whenever he was approached he disappeared at speed. I cannot see how someone would want to show a car knowing full well that it's been 'rung' for the sake of £110 worth of road tax. Beats me.

Best solution to all this stupidity is the Goverment to come through with the promises of a revision of the 1973 ruling. There have been consultancies on this through the FHBVC, but nothing concrete as of yet - one possibility was to go to 30 year rolling, with everyone paying £50 a year for cars older than 30. This would appear to work very well, but for whatever reason, hasn't happened yet.

 

[ianfordcarr]

Thanks for that roundup Nick. I also have to accept now that the car is technically uninsured. It's currently on a multicar classic policy but, as I said early in the post, I got it on an impulse as a restoration project and won't be running it for another year or so, until I've finished my current project, a Cortina 1600E.

The tax runs out shortly, so I'll SORN it, garage it and sort out the paperwork. I hope its criminal past won't preclude us from membership of the RP6C when the time comes.

Ian

 

[NickDunning]

Thanks for that roundup Nick. I also have to accept now that the car is technically uninsured. It's currently on a multicar classic policy but, as I said early in the post, I got it on an impulse as a restoration project and won't be running it for another year or so, until I've finished my current project, a Cortina 1600E.

The tax runs out shortly, so I'll SORN it, garage it and sort out the paperwork. I hope its criminal past won't preclude us from membership of the RP6C when the time comes.

Ian

Absolutely not!
Look forward to seeing it in the flesh, as it were.
I love 1600E's. My first car:

My car still exists, and is on the road according to DVLA. Although for some reason it's now shown as being purple. I've made many attempts to find the owner of the car through Clubs and, in more recent years, the Forums, but never had any luck.

And - yes - there is a Brigade Red 2000 in the background in this photo, taken in 1986.

 

[GrimV8]

Harvey - If it was an SC head all would have been OK as the valve sizes are the same as the 2000SC - it's only the TC head that has different valve sizes to the 2000 version. That's right isn't it - save me from pulling the manual out!
Chris

No, SC or TC makes no difference, 2200 exhaust valves are bigger than 2000 ones and foul the block if fitted.

I'm confused now as I've seen it done several times :?

 

[webmaster]

I'd be a little concerned about contacting the DVLA on this, I'm not sure exactly what they will do, in theory it should receive a Q plate as effectively it is a vehicle rebuilt from parts from various sources, I suspect that would probably be the nicest outcome.