head gasket...
- Thread starter drcooper
- Start date
Brian-Northampton
Administrator
Hi there,
Your torque is correct, and it's fine to use the old head bolts. I've only done mine once but never had a problem.
When you say it's leaking on the sideplate, you mean it's dripping onto the sideplate rather than the side plate leaking???
Brian.
Your torque is correct, and it's fine to use the old head bolts. I've only done mine once but never had a problem.
When you say it's leaking on the sideplate, you mean it's dripping onto the sideplate rather than the side plate leaking???
Brian.
You shouldn't use any sealant on the head gasket. I'd be inclined to agree with the gist of the above posting and think it was the sideplate, possibly leaking out through the gasket on the top edge, making it look like the head gasket.
My advice in the first instance would be to thoroughly clean the area, and pressurise the cooling system and see where it's coming from.
My advice in the first instance would be to thoroughly clean the area, and pressurise the cooling system and see where it's coming from.
drcooper said:
Looks like you'll be taking the head off again then..............
I can't say I've ever put a head back on and had that problem. Has the head been skimmed, and if so by how much? Have you got the correct washers under the head bolts? Were the waterways in the head corroded/welded/repaired? Which side of the engine are we talking about?
JVY
Active Member
Would suggest taking head off and carefully examining head and engine block surfaces plus the faces of the head gasket. Even if you are careful to keep surfaces clean, the slightest bit of grit, metal etc. caught between the faces can mean leaks. Sometimes you get slight rusting around the waterways on blocks that can give a rough surfaces an cause leaks. Using a metal ruler as straight edge usually shows any peaks or troughs (sorry if this is teaching you how to suck eggs).
I recently fitted what sounds like the same head gasket from JRW. I used original headbolts and washers but tightened to 55lb/ft. I was unsure whether to go for 55 or 70, so opted for lower torque as I wasnt't sure if the JRW gasket should be considered as "asbestos" or "metal" The only gasket sealant I used was plenty around the neoprene oil channel 'o' ring plus a very light smear around each cylinder ring. I have put a few hundred miles on her since and have not had any oil/water leaks.
Sorry if it's a silly question but I assume you tightened the headbolts in the correct sequence? I followed the Haynes manual. However, I have read one or two references to Haynes manual not giving best advice for bolt sequence, yet have never seen any details of an alternative mothod/order for tightening head bolts.
I recently fitted what sounds like the same head gasket from JRW. I used original headbolts and washers but tightened to 55lb/ft. I was unsure whether to go for 55 or 70, so opted for lower torque as I wasnt't sure if the JRW gasket should be considered as "asbestos" or "metal" The only gasket sealant I used was plenty around the neoprene oil channel 'o' ring plus a very light smear around each cylinder ring. I have put a few hundred miles on her since and have not had any oil/water leaks.
Sorry if it's a silly question but I assume you tightened the headbolts in the correct sequence? I followed the Haynes manual. However, I have read one or two references to Haynes manual not giving best advice for bolt sequence, yet have never seen any details of an alternative mothod/order for tightening head bolts.
I can't think of anything to do now other than taking the head off again. TBH if it wasn't leaking from there before you did this work, then it's got to be something you've done.
I've bought headsets from a company that sells on ebay as "gasketsforclassics" and they offered a good product at a good price with good delivery. Recently had a 2000SC head set from them and it was fine.
I've bought headsets from a company that sells on ebay as "gasketsforclassics" and they offered a good product at a good price with good delivery. Recently had a 2000SC head set from them and it was fine.
j_radcliffe
Active Member
Have you checked to make sure that coolant is not leaking from the metal plugs (welsh plugs?) in the head. My 2000 SC is starting to seap a little from one of the plugs again, but not at any great rate to be a problem. There are part numbers in the catalogue for these plugs. Maybe the machine shop did something to them, or tried to replace them.
I would suggest that you get the right fittings to enable you to pump some air into the cooling system to pressurize it with the motor cool. The problem with running it to find where the water is coming from is the fan can blow the leaking water about a bit, make it appear to be coming from somewhere else. If you blow a bit of air in with a hand pump you can examine and feel where the leak is, and then take it from there. I did have a blown bypass hose on a subaru motor once which leaked onto the block, and of course then evaporated. I did find the leak by blowing 10 psi in with a hand pump into the radiator.
I would try to make sure you know exactly where the leak is from before removing the head again.
On my 2000 TC I replaced the washers with SAE grade 8 of the appropriate diameter. The washers which were on there originally were a bit deformed from tourqing the head down with the spacers to do the tappets. I have since changed to using 2 large nuts as spaces.
I have had good experiences with gaskets form gaskets for classics.
James.
I would suggest that you get the right fittings to enable you to pump some air into the cooling system to pressurize it with the motor cool. The problem with running it to find where the water is coming from is the fan can blow the leaking water about a bit, make it appear to be coming from somewhere else. If you blow a bit of air in with a hand pump you can examine and feel where the leak is, and then take it from there. I did have a blown bypass hose on a subaru motor once which leaked onto the block, and of course then evaporated. I did find the leak by blowing 10 psi in with a hand pump into the radiator.
I would try to make sure you know exactly where the leak is from before removing the head again.
On my 2000 TC I replaced the washers with SAE grade 8 of the appropriate diameter. The washers which were on there originally were a bit deformed from tourqing the head down with the spacers to do the tappets. I have since changed to using 2 large nuts as spaces.
I have had good experiences with gaskets form gaskets for classics.
James.
well... Don't have turned the key yet! I poured water to fill the rad and went to attach my choke cable then i heard a tiny "plick plick"... A real leak! Drops are forming along the gasket, it drips along the top of the sideplate then follows the clutch plate. IMO even 1psi would mean a shower! 
hermione149
Member
drcooper said:
Hi,
The tightening sequences are on page 54,top right,..fig 1.38,next to Cylinder Head Identification
Sorry to here that, don't sound good. These side plates are made of very poor metal for some reason, even new ones. Some kind of alloy made out of old deckchairs. They do like to leek when disturb if they are getting old. I've changed mine but that was because I was rebuilding the engine but if I was doing a head gasket on an engine with old ones I would change them just because they seem to be so week when old.
Although the 4 pot head is alloy it's size means that it can take some abuse, mine has. Old bolts are fine. On engines that don't use stretch bolts replacing the old ones I think is a bit over kill.
It's a real bummer doing a load of work and finding the problem still exists. You next step is to strip the side plates off, I would suggest do both. Don't forget the plate at the back of the head, unless you've already done that.
If it still leeks then it's time to get the head skimmed, bit of a pain that as the valves will have to be stripped out. Although I would guess the head is fine.
It's one of them things that we all need to stick our heads in the engine bay to really see what's going on.
Although the 4 pot head is alloy it's size means that it can take some abuse, mine has. Old bolts are fine. On engines that don't use stretch bolts replacing the old ones I think is a bit over kill.
It's a real bummer doing a load of work and finding the problem still exists. You next step is to strip the side plates off, I would suggest do both. Don't forget the plate at the back of the head, unless you've already done that.
If it still leeks then it's time to get the head skimmed, bit of a pain that as the valves will have to be stripped out. Although I would guess the head is fine.
It's one of them things that we all need to stick our heads in the engine bay to really see what's going on.
The head tightening sequence has a minimal effect on the gasket itself, but tightening up (or loosening) in the wrong order can break the camshaft into about 4 pieces, and this can happen even if you do it in the order suggested in the manuals IIRC. The head should always be pegged at EP when tightening/loosening, and whatever order you do it, small increments are the order of the day.
I have my own sequence which I have used since I started, without a single problem, but due to the possibilities of something being lost in the description and causing other people problems, I'll keep it to myself.
I have my own sequence which I have used since I started, without a single problem, but due to the possibilities of something being lost in the description and causing other people problems, I'll keep it to myself.
OrganDoctor
New Member
My completely rebuilt engine also "seeped" fluid when I filled the radiator. All of the leaking stopped after the engine had been run and warmed up, and has not leaked since.
Dick West
Dick West
i have taken the head off this morning. The head and the block were ok... But the gasket was looking as if it was just "out from the box". I found my bolts were a bit long... And my gasket still looking like made of some bad exhaust gasket material. Moreover, some "rust" has appeared on its top... So i decided to use some wellseal on both sides and to use some more washers for the bolts. The gasket seems now to be hold really tight, and no leak has appeared since 4 pm. Will finish all this tomorrow and see what happens with the engine running!