Head Gasket

keanej

keanej

New Member
A couple of questions ( well may be 3 )

On reading the manual it sounds like the tin gasket goes on to the engine dry, other cars I have done suggest a smear of engine oil. Can some one confirm that it should be put together dry ?

Also am I right in thinking the outer row of bolts should only be tightend to 25lb rather than 40lb, but otherwise in the sequence as specified in the workshop manual ?

And finally as far as bolt lube goes, the only thing my local factors had was loctite 243 Lock N Seal - So should I use that or Copper Grease ?
 
I've always fitted the tin (shim) gaskets dry. I won't be changing anytime soon.

Have you considered using composite gaskets?

A lot of people say tighten the outer row of bolts less, and they were deleted on the later engines anyway, but that wasn't the perceived wisdom when I was doing all the ones I did, so they all got tightened up the same and I never had any problems afterwards, so the choice is yours. The sequence remains the same.

You should make the effort to get the correct bolt sealer for the head bolts. 3M EC776. I wouldn't use either of the products you mention in this application.
 
Loctite 243 is not a bolt lube, it is an adhesive.

It cures in the absense of air and in the presence of a reactive metal and is used to stop bolts, nuts, and other fixings from shaking loose.
 
harveyp6 said:
quattro said:
Loctite 243 is not a bolt lube, it is an adhesive.
Click to expand...

The proper stuff, 3M EC776 is actually an adhesive.........
Click to expand...

I wouldn't know, we don't deal with the Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Company's automotive or aerospace division, only the industrial side.

I thought Rover specified an anti-seize compound like an upgraded copaslip for the head bolts?

Richard
 
I wouldn't have thought there would be any harm in coppa slipping the-bolts. Don't overdo it though otherwise you could get a hydraulic lock in the blind hole.

Worth taking the time to do a bit of prep first: Clean the threads thoroughly with a wire brush in a drill otherwise the sealant remaining on the threads will affect the torque readings. Would be sensible to run each bolt into the thread a few times with a little coppa slip to polish the threads for the same reason.
 
quattro said:
harveyp6 said:
quattro said:
Loctite 243 is not a bolt lube, it is an adhesive.
Click to expand...

The proper stuff, 3M EC776 is actually an adhesive.........
Click to expand...

I wouldn't know, we don't deal with the Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Company's automotive or aerospace division, only the industrial side.

I thought Rover specified an anti-seize compound like an upgraded copaslip for the head bolts?

Richard
Click to expand...

EC776 is the recommended sealer, and AFAIK always has been and still is, I just enjoyed the irony of you saying the Locktite was an adhesive and by inference it shouldn't be used, when it says on the tin of the recommended sealer that it's an adhesive........ :?
 
I'd be happier using the correct stuff, but where can I buy it ?

Google doesn't find it, Can't see any on Ebay, local motorfactors didn't seem to know what I was talking about.

I thought it may be nolonger available hence why I was considering alternatives.

Actually - above isn't quite true, I can find a 3M EC776 product, but its description on coating aircraft panels sort of made me think it wasn't the same thing - is it the stuff I need ?
 
Well on looking a little harder it looks like Ian Wilson has it listed, so at least I can get it from him, although it will mean the heads will have to wait for the postman for a couple of days - unless anyone knows of another source I can just go and get some from over the counter ?
 
I'd be inclined to order it from Ian, by the time you've phoned around talking to people who haven't got a clue what you're on about, it should have arrived......

Land Rover dealers may have it but I wouldn't hold your breath.....
 
Now to "throw a cat amongst the pigeons",...Land Rover in their 1997 engine overhaul manual stated for all 3.5 litre engines,...."Lighty oil threads of cylinder head bolts. Torque settings..outer row 60Nm...44lbs/ft,..All others 90Nm..66lbs/ft."

Ron.
 
Is it possible the LR 97 engine used the stretch bolts which would be made from different steel & different threads ?

Well the listing on Rover-Classics web site isn't a current page and it isn't a stocked item, so I'll try one of the air craft suppliers.
 
harveyp6 said:
EC776 is the recommended sealer, and AFAIK always has been and still is, I just enjoyed the irony of you saying the Locktite was an adhesive and by inference it shouldn't be used, when it says on the tin of the recommended sealer that it's an adhesive........ :?
Click to expand...

OIC :)

I was answering this -
And finally as far as bolt lube goes, the only thing my local factors had was loctite 243 Lock N Seal - So should I use that or Copper Grease ?
Click to expand...

Never mind :wink:

3M tell me that it is available to our division but only in 1L tins. It is apparently a coating for the inside of aircraft fuel tanks and an adhesive (Contact type). EC776 and 776 (Same thing - EC made in Europe) are £16.92 per litre plus carriage to us of £6.95. EC776SR is a red version so you can see where you have put it.

It does state, 'Take special care to test with unleaded fuels and gasoils.' This is apparently because certain additives can attack it (More of a problem when used as a tank sealer than a thread sealer).

Alcohol turns it into a gummy mess. :shock:

Hope that helps

Richard
 
Richard

Your post was a minute or two too late, I will shortly be the owner of 3 litres of the stuff - minimum order value meant I had to order 3 litres.

I am thinking of decanting the stuff ( assuming its a liquid ) into 100ml bottles and selling it on Ebay to recoup my costs/ get rid of the excess - Before I get carried away would any body be interested in buying some probably around £5 each assuming the post office don't charge too much ?
 
keaney wrote,...
Is it possible the LR 97 engine used the stretch bolts which would be made from different steel & different threads ?
Click to expand...

No...those details were for high tensile bolts. Stretch bolts use the same threads and are torqued differently. Stretch bolts are all torqued to an inital 20Nm,...15lbs.ft, and then turned through two 90 degree rotations.

At the end of the day it would seem that you could use the original spec lube as recommended by Harvey or you could use an anti seize lubricant made by Locktite or just engine oil as advised in the 1997 Land Rover manual.

Ron.
 
keanej said:
I am thinking of decanting the stuff ( assuming its a liquid ) into 100ml bottles and selling it on Ebay to recoup my costs/ get rid of the excess - Before I get carried away would any body be interested in buying some probably around £5 each assuming the post office don't charge too much ?
Click to expand...


The good thing is that it doesn't go "off", so selling a few small pots would move on some of the 3 litres you've had to buy, there's no way you'll ever use that amount. To give you an idea I bought 1 litre well over 25 years ago and there's still some left and it's still OK. That's after all the head gaskets I've done, and that's a considerable amount.
 
keanej said:
Richard

Your post was a minute or two too late, I will shortly be the owner of 3 litres of the stuff - minimum order value meant I had to order 3 litres.
Click to expand...

Sorry Keanej, it didn't occur to me that we could get the product but apparently we can.

Richard
 
Blimey KeaneJ, you'll only need a little smidgeon to lubricate/adhere your cylinder head bolts, three litres of the stuff will be enough to fix a great many Rover V8 cylinder head bolts properly for many many years to come! I'll buy a little bottle of the stuff off you just to help you shift the excess that you won't need. When I removed my heads from a '72 V8 the bolts smelt really nasty, I reckon it was the adhesive on the threads. Does the stuff you've bought smell awful?
 
What does this stuff do ? Is it thread lock , anti seize , thread lube or all three ?
I can see that you won't get the proper torque settings if you don't use the recommended compound
 
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