How to: Fit an Oil Cooler

redrover

Well-Known Member
Chaps and Chapettes,

The efforts to make my 2000 TC as refined and flexible as possible continue apace with an oil cooler arrangement.
I'll post up some pics of the system before, during and after fitting when I get the chance, but suffice to say it's a pukka Rover jobby with the big long braided flexi pipes and finned cooler 'radiator' which sits just behind and to the left of the vents in the valance.

I've just got one question at the minute: the oil pressure sender, what to do about it? As you can see in the pic, the standard pipe (right) has the sender in a tapped hole in the top of it, but the new flexi pipe (which is about 3 foot long by the way) doesn't have it.
7931915452_33e237e45f.jpg

I know early TCs won't have had one anyway because there was no oil pressure gauge, but the diagram below is from the 2200 supplement, and still shows it absent. Should I just drill and tap the new pipe? Or is there a workaround? Swapping the sender for the 'other bit' in the pump and grounding elsewhere, etc?

Michael
 
There's another pressure take off point on the block that you can fit the sender into. Ask The Rovering Member nicely and he may have pics of it in use on Bruiser, as I'm sure that's how he plumbed in his guage on that.
 
My 68 TC has the integrated oil cooler in the radiator. The pressure switch for the oil light is in a boss below the oil filter.

I added a real mechanical (not electrical) guage using one of the unused oil gallery holes at the right rear of the block, as I don't trust lights or electrical senders
 
Oh, and also, the original oil lines leaked badly so I was able ,at a pneumatic shop, to replace the lines on the existing brass fittings. Although they are not braided exterially as the originals, they work and look great.
 
I'm a bit concerned about leakage myself, but they were good an working on the last car (which was scrapped) and have been dry stored carefully since. Fingers crossed!

I messaged TRM who pointed me to your thread on pressure senders. Strange that I've been over every square inch of my engine when I rebuilt it and didn't come across that stud in the gallery. If I did, I would have changed the copper washer!

It's difficult to see from Demetris' photo whether there' enough space between the engine rear plate and the stud to get the round sender unit on there:
file.php

I'll find out tonight when I try it.

If it won't, there's this which Kev (hermione149) previously suggested as an alternative:
http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct. ... de=070.027

I get how it works, but does it give a true reading? If I remember it rightly, the oil light sender bolts straight into a threaded channel in the pump housing, whereas the gauge sender is on the out-bound pipe just before the gallery, and crucially AFTER the pressure release valve. Would this make a difference? Or would the pressure be the same everywhere before the gallery?

Michael
 
redrover said:
It's difficult to see from Demetris' photo whether there' enough space between the engine rear plate and the stud to get the round sender unit on there:
No Michael, there's not enough space for what you want. You will have to fit a short capillary pipe and mount the sender somewhere within the inner wing.
redrover said:
I get how it works, but does it give a true reading? If I remember it rightly, the oil light sender bolts straight into a threaded channel in the pump housing, whereas the gauge sender is on the out-bound pipe just before the gallery, and crucially AFTER the pressure release valve. Would this make a difference? Or would the pressure be the same everywhere before the gallery?
Michael

The oil pressure after the pressure release valve is the same in all galleries. Using this pick up point, you monitor the oil pressure that your bearings will see, which is exactly what you want to know.
 
Thanks Demetris, I thought that would be the case. Tried last night and there's nowhere near enough room.

Thinking about it though, is there any reason not to have one of those adaptor pieces in the light switch hole? I get that the pressure after the release valve is what the bearings will see, but regardless of whether the valve is open or not, won't the pump output pressure be the same as the galleries anyway? There is only one place for possible wastage before the galleries, which is the top chain tensioner hose (expelling a small quantity of oil onto the top chain), but this is happening anyway. So is it okay to relocate the sender to the pump?

Thanks for the comments,
Michael
 
redrover said:
Thanks Demetris, I thought that would be the case. Tried last night and there's nowhere near enough room.

Thinking about it though, is there any reason not to have one of those adaptor pieces in the light switch hole? I get that the pressure after the release valve is what the bearings will see, but regardless of whether the valve is open or not, won't the pump output pressure be the same as the galleries anyway? There is only one place for possible wastage before the galleries, which is the top chain tensioner hose (expelling a small quantity of oil onto the top chain), but this is happening anyway. So is it okay to relocate the sender to the pump?

Thanks for the comments,
Michael
I had a brass T fitting at that location on my 65 2000SC so I could have both light and oil pressure guages.They agreed with each other perfectly.
 
That'll do me then. Even if it's just a medium term solution, I don't have any worries about oil pressure with the new engine, and the oil cooler is there to minimise the minor pressure loss due to super-hot oil on a motorway.

Cheers
 
The pick up on the oil pump will be fine too, it is that i just didn't like to have a "Christmas tree" of T pieces adaptors and senders down there.

Regarding the oil cooler, i just wonder if you really need it. Sure it is a nice safety measure. Last Saturday i had to do a fast motorway trip. We were 4 persons on board and i kept a steady 100+ mph for most of the time (around 4500 rpm with my V8 final drive). Although the weather was rather hot again, the oil temperature did not exceed 90 C. However, during winter, with gentle cruising (i.e. the most common use) the oil temperature will strugle to get above 60 C, which is hardly ideal. Therefore my advice is to postpone the fitment of the oil cooler. After all the hot season is over and you won't have problems until next summer. In the meantime you can fit an oil temperature gauge to see what your oil temperature looks like. If it tends to exceed 100 C with hard driving, then you can consider the oil cooler, preferably with a thermostat.
 
Hi Demetris, Thanks for your advice.

I haven't fitted an oil temperature gauge, but I'm reasonably happy that a cooler would be a worthwhile and reasonably helpful addition to my engine in the long run. As you probably know, it's basically the same setup as yours (9:1 with twin HIF6's), albeit without the V8 diff (yet...), and with a freer-flowing intake, crankcase pipes removed and different carb needles.

I made a 625 return journey to Petworth at the weekend, cruising just below 90 at the same 4500 rpm. Full tank of fuel and the exhaust almost dragging the floor from most of the rally paraphernalia in the boot and back seat! Water temperature was perfect, but the oil pressure would drop to 30-35 lb[]in at idle after a long motorway run. I've replaced all of the usual suspects during the rebuild - all the bearings (including camshaft) are new, the tensioners work, and the pressure relief valve spring is also new. It also had enough oil in the sump.
I never have these problems until I've been on a long motorway run. Sustained cruising at 2500-3000 rpm is fine, but the hot-idle pressure begins to deteriorate in all circumstances after a few hundred motorway miles. Once I change the oil for fresh, it is back to perfect in all circumstances.

From this, I have deduced that the oil is being broken down (turned 'thinner') quicker than ideal on a motorway. I can only surmise therefore that the additional pressure in the bearings at higher rpm is heating the oil beyond optimal temperature and causing it to break down.

However, the engine is still technically being run in, having covered only a little over 3500 miles since the rebuild with 2 oil/filter changes since then. The oil was as thin as turpentine after the first 500 miles (to be expected), and the subsequent batches lasted 1k and 2k miles respectively. This may well improve as the engine wears in, but introducing a system to cool unhelpfully hot oil before it recirculates doesn't seem like such a bad idea in the long run. I don't rag the car from standing starts or anything, but I certainly like to put it through its paces.

Michael

PS:
Demetris said:
After all the hot season is over and you won't have problems until next summer.
Er.... what hot season...?
 
testrider said:
How's the oil cooler project going Michael?

I'm afraid it's not on yet. There's a critical dependency on the delivery of an oil pressure sender adaptor from an unnamed general classic car parts and accessories supplier, whose £4.50 postage charge on a 6" x 4" jiffy bag doesn't seem to be sufficient to get it to my house in over 3 weeks.

Australian Vauxhall.

Michael
 
redrover said:
I get how it works, but does it give a true reading? If I remember it rightly, the oil light sender bolts straight into a threaded channel in the pump housing, whereas the gauge sender is on the out-bound pipe just before the gallery, and crucially AFTER the pressure release valve. Would this make a difference? Or would the pressure be the same everywhere before the gallery?
Pascal's law of hydraulics - the pressure inside a sealed vessel is the same at all points: so there is no loss of pressure along a pipe or tube or gallery.
 
I have been unfairly criticised for leaving everything to the eleventh hour. This is a gross exaggeration - I leave it until 11:45! :wink:

On the eve of the P6 Club's Northern National at the Bowes Museum, County Durham, I decided it was finally time to finish off this project (18 months after starting!!) and fit the oil cooler to my TC.

In my defence, a lot has happened over the past 18 months and I've needed the car most weekends. This upgrade was never key to performance either - it was just a belt-and-braces bolt-on to stop oil pressure dropping slightly at idle on the motorway exit slip after a sustained run on the far side of 4000 rpm. I loathe the sound of those chains gargling away in my lovely engine! Even if it is only 10 mins before the oil cools enough to restore normal pressure.

Hard to know where to pick up after such a long gap. I'll start from the beginning.

IMG_1877 by michaeljallen19, on Flickr
I wasn't satisfied that I knew the integrity of the hoses. After all of the effort required to fit, the last thing I wanted was a leak - or worse a rupture! It also just didn't sit right with me to put 40+ year old used rubber components onto my engine. So I set about procuring a replacement. In the end I went for this which is 19mm ID stainless steel braided high performance racing hose, capable of withstanding oil, petrol, water, the lot - up to 120 degrees at 220 PSI. Perfectly adequate for my needs.
14212574742_58d02f22b0_n.jpg

For anybody interested in replicating this without the original hoses to measure, both of the long hoses need to be 25" long with an internal diameter of 3/4" (19mm exactly, give or take). Outside diameter is irrelevant.
I ordered 3m but got almost 4m so have about 1.5m left over. If anybody wants to make up replacement short hoses, feel free to take it off my hands.


14028398507_bc2fef5a31_n.jpg

These were the hoses before. As you can see, they were starting to weep a fraction. The hoses are held on the brass unions with an alloy crimp. Nothing fancy. It isn't possible to open them (or at least I couldn't find a way) to reuse them, but jubilee clips suffice just as well. Here is the shorter pick-up pipe made up. Jubilees are deliberately angled to facilitate tightening is situ should the need ever arise.
14191826846_74c7eedeaf_n.jpg

I fitted new 1" x 1/8" O-rings and refitted. Easy stuff.

For the long hoses, I needed to cannabalise several sets of unions together to get the configuration I wanted. As you can in the very first photo in this thread, the engine block union for the cooler pipe did not have the threaded hole to accept the oil pressure sender. I bought one of the T-piece adaptors, but in the end realised that I could just as easily fit the standard TC union (with sender) to the new oil cooler pipe. The other unions are also slightly different - longer and with bends in them to direct the pipes a bit better towards the front of the engine bay (180 degrees away form where the standard short pipe points).

All in situ:
14191827096_dd4354215d_n.jpg


The next part is the tricky bit (and if I'm honest is the real reason why I've ever bothered to do this job earlier). Finding a way to mount the oil cooler radiator is a bit tricky! First of all it involves dismantling the front of your car!
14028627407_74ea1f44bc_n.jpg


Then you've got the problem of putting it somewhere. You want it to go here:
14212802202_93f6a808d5_n.jpg

because that's where it's meant to go. But the horn is in way and there's nothing to bolt it to - it genuinely is just thin air in the area it's meant to be.
14214982775_cc47357c2e_n.jpg

It's also quite a bit tighter behind the 4-cyl valance than you'd think! So it can't come too far out too far or it'll hit the valance, but you can't mount it too close the cross member as the pipes (visible behind) will have to form a very tight S-bend around the crossmember and risk kinking.

Time for a cuppa...

The solution came in the form of mounting the horn on the otherside by bolting it upside down to the same bracket as the other one. Simply run a pair of wires from one to the other to connect them in parallel and you're away.
14192056186_57bc9f604c_n.jpg


Next involved cutting out this origami piece of steel
14028589220_c1c938df02_n.jpg

And bending and welding it to shape. It's not just a bit of box, it's deliberately angular to translate the angled plane of the crossmember into a flat end plate that is penpendicular to the length of the car, thereby allowing the cooler rad to sit in line with the water radiator , and not jutting out at all funny angles where it would the valance. Drill two holes and bolt it up the empty horn bracket using the old horn bolts.
Wack the oil cooler on the front and you're laughing! :LOL:
14192056586_a9e6972c59_n.jpg


Can't yet comment on the results. I'm quite sure oil pressure and temperature is now much more consistent at high revs, but unfortunately - after 3.5 hours' sleep and a 5:30 alarm call, I was on my way to meeting Mick Burke (happydays) and the Manchester crew to travel in convoy to the Club National rally at Bowes when an almighty knocking sound started originating from the top of my engine. Think another cam bearing cap has snapped. I replaced one cracked one the other week, but should have replaced them all - just laziness on my part really. When I got the car there was no cam cover gasket - just Hylomar and the cover was cracked down super tight on the completely perished rubber doughnuts. All of this was rectified when I rebuilt the engine but the three studded bearing caps are drilled and tapped right through, and being cast, they must have had hairline cracks in them that I didn't detect. The shear force in normal operation was obviously too much for them to take and one had split randomly a few weeks ago. Suspect another must have gone. Sigh....

Still, I'm sure the rally was a roaring success regardless! Would love to have been there.

Michael
 
Michael,

sorry to hear that you are having again trouble with the cam bearing caps. I hope that it is something easy to rectify.
I also replaced the oil cooler hoses in my car when i first got it. As you say belps and braces etc... However, i chose to use a hydraulic shop and crimped properly the new hose to the original ends.
To be honest i am slightly terrified to see the jubilee clips that you have used. :shock:
Yes, the oil pressure is not that high, but i think that jubilee clips have no place in engine oil feed hoses.
 
It's reasonably straightforward to change the bearing caps. Certainly not as involved as taking the head off. Just a shame that I ended up missing today.

I know what you mean about Jubilee clips, but if you inspect the unions when removed from the pipe (should have taken a picture) they have several grooves machined on them as well as a milled cross-hatching. You simply need to apply compressive pressure around that point and the inside of the rubber hose will crush into the hatching to cause a nice interference fit under compression.
I personally was somewhat alarmed to see how little held the original crimped ends on. It's simply an alloy sleeve crimped on four side to create four vertices. These then apply the pressure to the hose. There are some funny looking washers of the same section on the inside, but remarkably little.
I spent a bit of time wondering about this, but having looked around at similar applications on the internet, jubilees do seem to be a common fixing. I did a trial run by trying to pull one off in a vice and couldn't, and did several test runs last night. Not a single weep from any of the unions. And that includes after a little 90mph stint on the motorway this morning.
Time will tell I suppose...
 
Michael,
jubilee clips are fine to press on rubber, but i don't think that you can create with them enough force to crimp effectively steel braided hoses. It does take a suitable press to do this, at least in my books.
 
Demetris said:
Michael,
jubilee clips are fine to press on rubber, but i don't think that you can create with them enough force to crimp effectively steel braided hoses. It does take a suitable press to do this, at least in my books.

Hose clamps (as we call them over here) are adequate for steel overbraided hose, provided pressures are low as they are in this application. But they look pretty ugly, in the same situation I would use either Oetiker crimp clamps or take the hose to a hydraulic shop and have the fittings crimped on with compression sleeves.

Yours
Vern
 
Vern,
the pressures are low as you say, and for the time being (=new) they hold enough as Michael says.
However, i don't know what will happen after a few heat cycles, and in an already high maintenance car (with modern criteria...), that is used almost day in day out, i wouldn't add the periodic tightening of hose clamps / jubille clips of the lubrication system. Simply these were not specified for this use, so they must not be adequate.
 
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