LED HEADLIGHTS, my limted experience so far

nonote

nonote

Member
S'cuse any typo's my spillchucker seems to be awol since my last computer crash!

Just a tale of caution that may be unique to my situation but might just be of interest to a few others.

My P6 has had the standard sealed beam headlamps replaced with Lucas units of the era, designed for the old type of 45 watt bulbs using the round p45t type base. No idea what the part number of these is or what they were used on as they were sourced from several autojumble visits - I can walk to Newark showground from my house!
These bulbs were replaced by halogen bulbs using the same P45t base rather than the more usual H4 three pronged base (the H4 bulbs won't fit). These bulbs were standard fitment in Metros in the eighties so mine were sourced from the local scrapyard fo next to nothing.

I'm well aware that the increase in power of these halogen bulbs over the sealed beam units may cause long term issues with switchgear and old connectors so I have been watching developments in LED lighting products.

The market used to offer LED headlight replacements which used a seperate regulator box and lamps with built in cooling fans that needed holes to be cut in the housing etc - all very time consuming and more to the point destroying the "originality" of the fittings.
Nowadays things have progressed and you can buy LED lamps made in such a way that they are a "plug and play" replacement where the voltage conditioning is done inside the lamp and cooling is catered for by an aluminium housing.

I chose Lucas branded replacements for my car on the basis of the name (although I have no idea what that means anymore - not sure where the stuff is made now) and the fact that the leds themselves are claimed to replicate the position of the original halogen lamp filaments.
Buying these was a big mistake as the lamp bases were so badly formed they wouldn't fit properly in the housing, not apparent until I tried to fit them. At more than £20 a lamp I wasn't prepared to mash them up with my Dremel grinder to make them fit and so returned them to the supplying company, who have been quite accomodating so far. Maybe the issue I've had is a bad batch but I wanted to warn folks to beware. The position of the bulb inside the housing is very critical, get it wrong and the beam pattern will be all over the place, the science that goes into that piece of bumpy glass on the front is mind boggling and it is all designed around the bulb filament being accurately sited.

Image 1 shows the main issue for comparison and 2 and 3 show how they sit in the housing. A tiny discrepancy in the locating lug stops the LED from locating properly. Image 4 shows the lens - how did they design that pattern before we had all the modern tools?

Anyway I shall continue my quest to find a LED headlight solution that works for me, I've already ordered another pair of a different design from a different UK supplier and will let folks know how I get on.

Steve1 LOCATING LUG DIFFERENCES.jpg2 LOCATING LUG CORRECT.jpg3 LOCATING LUG INCORRECT.jpg4 THE LENS.jpg
 
I have found this with a lot of aftermarket parts. I bought some sealed beam lights from Rimmers and the glass was too big to fit into the metal surround so as far as I could see they were never going to fit any car!!
 
Aren't the sealed beams 65W and hence modern halogen replacements use LESS power they are just more efficient?
 
PeterZRH said:
Aren't the sealed beams 65W and hence modern halogen replacements use LESS power they are just more efficient?
Click to expand...
Standard Lucas sealed beams were
37/5 dipped and 50 watts main.
Inner lamps were 50 watt and later were 75 watt as written on the outer lens.
 
Please keep this theme going. I have been trying to improv my lighting. Like Steve I bought LED lights and found that the light+heat-sink+electronic module would not fit, so gve up. I have bought some 'high power QI bulb hat claim to be direct replacements in H4 lamps, but yet to try them at night. I recll they were a real pain to fit, and get to stay in place.
Is there a way of getting bright light on a P6, other than using the very expensive replacement lamp units I have seen advertised. I did not drive much at night but lately I do not drive at night at all as I find that modern cars with LED light are simply too bright.
I havebeen accused of bein antisocial in my wanting to get lights that can compete with a modern car with LEDs, but wha t else can I do
 
Mine has std outers - 37.5/50W, and actual 75W inners, with '75W' on the lens. Think I will stick with these as long as they last, but go to halogens as a last resort. Have LEDs everywhere else - very noticable how bright the interior light is.
 
The second attempt LEDs arrived the day after ordering from a UK supplier. There's no manufacturer name on the boxes but they were neatly packed in a firm foam housing and best of all they fitted securely into the lamp housing.
Based on the fact that they work and look to be capable of adjustment into a better than acceptable beam pattern I've ordered another pair to fit the centre main beam units. The images attempt to show how well they fit and also the lug that I bent when refitting the housing! The image of the complete housing shows were the seam should sit on the retaining ring when it's correctly fitted - it only fits correctly in one position!
Once I get chance to adjust the lights properly I'll see if I can get some pics of the beam pattern from the LEDs but that will depend on both the weather and if I can sort this in my garden as I am a bit wary of driving on salted roads! I'll also provide supplier details if I'm happy with the final result if this is allowed on the forum.
Just to clarify things, the perceived improvement (or otherwise) in the light output / quality in using LEDs is not my prime reason for testing them out, I just want less amps flowing through my old car and if I also get improved lighting it's a bonus!
Steve.
3 location of seam.jpg2 how lug should look.jpg
 

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I was under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that LEDs are illegal in the UK unless fitted by the manufacturer and conforming to some standard or other?
 
Hi Quattro
I find the rules a bit confusing but as I have found out all of our P6 cars predate the requirement for headlight type approval and as such, so long as they pass the mot requirements for testing, the light source is irrelevant. There was a fairly recent MOT requirement for any headlamps designed for a certain light source should not be modified to use a different one eg converting Halogen to HID and the like. This was to get folks with badly fitted dazzling conversions off the road. This has recently (2023) been amended and I'm not sure what the current MOT testers manual guidance is, perhaps we have a tester on the site?
I researched the above before considering my conversion (researched sounds so much more important than googled) and the above information is available on the internet so may be totally wrong!
I'll certainly post on here if I get pulled!
Steve.
 
Thanks for that roverp480, that confirms what I understood from my web searching.
My main issue now is that I'm fairly sure my headlamp lenses are designed for left hand drive after comparing with others on the net! Well over 30 years I've had that car and never had a comment on an MoT or from anybody else, never been flashed and certainly never noticed it myself until now. That said I do very little driving at night in the P6 but that should change a little now I've retired. The lamps have always seemed to dip correctly and had a good beam pattern, especially with the LED units fitted.
I've now got 2 new Lucas main/dip lamp units on order together with the matching LED bulbs and will spend a few hours playing to sort them out.
Another slight irritation might be that the new outer units may not match the older inners which most people wouldn't notice but it will annoy me. The only remanufactured (main beam only) inners I can find use the H1 bulbs which must rely on the lamp unit for the earth return, which isn't possible on the P6. A fairly simple mod at the plug could do the job but that's another bridge to cross when I get to it!
Again scuse any typo's.
Steve
 
As I understood it, you can fit LED lights provided you fit the complete LED light unit. It is not (or was not) legal to fit LED bulbs into Halogen light units because the reflector is not the right shape for the light source from the LED bulb and the beam will be off. Complete LED units don't have this issue of course. I suspect the real answer is just how fussy your MOT man is but it could be an insurance issue if someone crashes into you because they were dazzled by the lights I suppose?
 
keynsham1 said:
As I understood it, you can fit LED lights provided you fit the complete LED light unit. It is not (or was not) legal to fit LED bulbs into Halogen light units because the reflector is not the right shape for the light source from the LED bulb and the beam will be off. Complete LED units don't have this issue of course. I suspect the real answer is just how fussy your MOT man is but it could be an insurance issue if someone crashes into you because they were dazzled by the lights I suppose?
Click to expand...

That was my understanding that the light fitting had to be designed for the lighting tech in it. It must have a CE mark and must have a height adjustment mechanism.

Then there's the way they look. These are very nice but costly as you need two pairs... https://www.headlightrevolution.com...Bright-LED-Headlights-5.75-Round_2?quantity=1
 
Reminds me of my days when I lived in the UK and owned a couple of Vauxhall VXR8's. They had halogen projector headlamps and I replaced the bulbs with Xenon ones. I clarified the MOT regulations with my local tester regarding Xenon and the requirement of self levelling and headlamp washers and he pointed out the phrase that said '...must work where fitted'. So, he had no issues passing the car, the beam passed the alignment and they weren't seen to dazzle oncoming traffic.
 
I’m well pleased with this topic that I’ve started and thanks to everybody who is contributing, I’m learning stuff and at some point I hope to have a setup on my car that I can recommend to others and which will save folks the donkey work of finding things out the hard (expensive) way!

For Keynsham1, what you’ve stated is substantially correct I assume but does not apply to vehicles first used before before 1986 according to the latest updated MOT testers manual, exact wording from what I’ve found:
…………..

Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

This does not refer to complete replacement headlamp units which may be constructed with HID or LED light sources.
……………..

From that I reckon our cars are OK to use LED bulbs.

For PeterZRH, I notice they’re priced in dollars so perhaps dip the wrong way for the UK, if those lamps were for UK use then I reckon they’d sell really well (and be even more expensive) and I’d be discussing having them fitted to my car! The only built in LED units I’ve seen on the net seem to be aimed at motorbike owners and as such may have a vertical dip function rather than a “down and to the left” that is required of UK cars. I didn’t look into these any further as none of them made any attempt to look like a traditional light unit.

Having driven around with what I think may have been LHD headlamps for years with no issues except for my inner self constantly thinking about the extra amps the Halogen units need I’m looking forward to my new RHD LED replacements arriving and will definitely pass any findings on here!

Steve
 
GREEN BOXED LUCAS 5 3/4 HEADLAMPS (LUB 223)

My dealings with these:5th.jpg
Next step was to fit these. The internet seems awash with these "Lucas" units. I'm having to get a refund on the two I've just tried to fit because, surprisingly, they dont fit! The 3 mounting lugs are fractionally out and short of grinding, bending and generally faffing about with a safety related item they cannot be made to fit. I've looked at several images where you can see the locating lugs, from different suppliers, and they are all the same. My advice is take a look at the real thing, compare it with what's on offer and walk away if you can see a discrepancy.
My concern is folks may buy them to put on the shelf, just in case, not use them for a while and then find out they've been stung.
In the pic the unit on the right is the original.

Steve
 
Well I've slept on the latest problem and today, against my better judgement, I attacked the pristine but otherwise useless light with my Dremel copy grinder and narrowed each lug by about a milimeter. Much to my delight the one I've attacked now fits perfectly.
My advice is now buy them knowing they need to be fettled to fit and a Dremel type tool with a grinding wheel attachment plus a steady hand is the weapon of choice.


20231122_133140.jpg20231122_133147.jpg
 
nonote said:
For PeterZRH, I notice they’re priced in dollars so perhaps dip the wrong way for the UK, if those lamps were for UK use then I reckon they’d sell really well (and be even more expensive) and I’d be discussing having them fitted to my car! The only built in LED units I’ve seen on the net seem to be aimed at motorbike owners and as such may have a vertical dip function rather than a “down and to the left” that is required of UK cars. I didn’t look into these any further as none of them made any attempt to look like a traditional light unit.

Having driven around with what I think may have been LHD headlamps for years with no issues except for my inner self constantly thinking about the extra amps the Halogen units need I’m looking forward to my new RHD LED replacements arriving and will definitely pass any findings on here!

Steve
Click to expand...

I think you are correct. One of the really appealing things about these is they don't have the high tech look of many. And even better these options....

1700667080241.png
 
A lot of modern cars for the UK now have vertical dip lamps so I dont think dip left is now a requirement. . In fact you could get vertical dip BPF bulbs back in the 1960's , MOD used them a lot, saved them changing when in Germany etc.
 
Bit of a summary:

For any interested parties I’m 90% there with the lights now.

I started out with halogen conversions on all four front lights, i.e. I had already replaced the original sealed beam units for bulb fitted Lucas replacements during the restoration 30 odd years ago. I’d always been just a little uneasy with these because of the slight increase in current required compared to the original sealed beams. The halogen bulbs were a great improvement in terms of visibility, although I do very little night driving.

Recent developments in LED headlight bulbs piqued my interest particularly since the headlamp bulbs with built in voltage conditioning circuitry rather than the separate box became available.

I needed 4 of these with p45t bases and decided on Lucas branded units which I ordered and promptly returned to the supplier (not classicarleds) because the bases were badly formed and wouldn't fit.

Meantime I became aware that my outer units were probably for a LHD car so I opted for Lucas branded replacements together with a pair of H4 based LEDS from the same supplier. The bulbs were a perfect fit but the housings needed a fair bit of fettling to sit properly. From the same supplier I also ordered two P45t based LEDs for the inner main beam only lights, these fitted perfectly.

For setting the beams I completely cover 3 lamps with cardboard and set the 4th in isolation then continue until I’m happy. Before I use the car again I’ll have them set at the local garage and hopefully get some pictures so folks can decide how they book!

I’ve heard talk of folks wanting a four headlamp dip system, i.e. having dimmable lights for the middle pair as well as the outers. Not sure about the legalities of this but the locating lugs on the lens units differ between dip/main and dip only so you’d need to alter the shells to suit which would be a pain.

The supplier of the stuff I’ve been happy with is classiccarleds, they accept paypal, deliver very quickly and provide good after sales service if necessary.

Next on the list is the ruddy cork in the brake reservoir and then the auto box slipping!

Steve
 
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