Lifter tick

cobraboy

cobraboy

Well-Known Member
Hey guys
A question about lifter tick.
For some time I have had a lifter tick on start up, sounds like just the one, quite loud after a lay up, after a few minutes does go away.
Today I thought I would try to locate it. I tried listening in the past, could not even decide which side it was on.
So I thought right bank, removed rocker cover and tried to turn pushrods, all had contact and all turned except very front one, could not turn it ?
Started engine and went along rockers listening with a large screwdriver, sure enough front rocker was noisy, noise then gradually went and rocker sounded the same as the rest. Horrah, found it !
Stopped engine, left for a few minutes, could then turn pushrod on front rocker.
Now, most folks seem to have a tick from a collapsed lifter, I seem to have a tick from a hard lifter.
Does anyone have any idea what is going on here ?
Do I need to remove the lifter and clean it out, is the ball valve blocked ?
Engine is Rover 3.9, Typhoon cam, Rhoads lifters, spotlessly clean inside, new oil every 3k miles.
Cheers
Mark
 
Sounds weird that it's closed up and causing a tick? I know a popular fix for sticking lifters here is to add some ATF to the oil a 100 miles before a change, the extra detergent can sometimes help shift a blockage.
 
Thing is, engine is not that old from rebuild, has always been flushed every oil change, oil was tested by Motul oil lab at the Revival this year and got a pass, no issues at all.
I will check tomorrow and see if that front pushrod will turn.
What I don't know is if there is enough movement in a lifter plunger to allow a pushrod to go slack if the lifter is fully on the cam, and it was pure fluke that the front pushrod was the only one in that position. Sadly I did not look down the head to see if the lifter was out of the block on the cam lobe - you can't think of everything, I'm amazed I remember to wake up some mornings :rolleyes:
 
I wonder if the hard lifter when filled is causing the rocker to somehow stick on the shaft (sort of stiction). You may only know if / when you remove the rocker shaft assembly - signs of wear on the shaft could point to that
 
Tomorrow I will turn the engine over to get a lifter full out of the block, I will then be able to see if I can turn that pushrod.
 
The results from today.
First thing I set the offending lifter at maximum opening point and went out for the day.
It bled down and tonight I could not turn the pushrod, so the piston in the lifter had bottomed out and the lifter was still lifting the valve, so in the first instance of investigating it was pure fluke that the noise was coming from the only pushrod not to turn.
I reassembled the engine and started it, oh boy it clattered badly for at least a minute after the oil pressure came up to 40 psi, then it went quiet - well quiet for Rhoads lifters. So bleeding out the offending lifter totally certainly gave my ears, and probably the camshaft a bashing.
So it is pot luck whether or not the offending lifter gets totally bled out when the engine stops, if it rests on the heel of the cam then the noise at start up is less.
I would like to know if the lifter oil gallery is fed from both ends ? anyone know ?
I know there is a bung in the valley at the front of the engine. I was wondering if the front lifter was being starved of oil by a silt blockage, but then you would think the next one along would be similarly affected.
I guess I may have a lazy lifter, and I either have to remove the intake and sort it, or leave it be.
At the moment referring back to a comp test in April, that No 2 cylinder had the best pressure of all of them, so I do not think the camshaft is being damaged - yet.
Hey ho, isn't life fun......
 
The block oil galleries are plugged at both ends, and oil enters them at the front, so No3 should be getting full pressure, jus behing the front cam bearing and front main. If the pushrod is not turning, is it likely the lifter is also not rotating? When you say you have flushed it regularly, how did you do that? I have heard that ticking in an MX5 can be cured by idling with a very thin oil - ATF or normal + kero(parafin), but have never had the need in any of mine. Is there any sign of wear on the relevant rocker shaft?
 
I found an oil way schematic and that showed the lifter gallery fed from the front. All the pushrods on that bank turn when the engine is running, so all the lifters are turning.
The engine since it was built gets an oil flush added before every oil change and run for 20 minutes at a fast idle.
I removed the rocker shaft and slid the rockers to one side, there is no appreciable wear on the shaft under the rockers.
After speaking with Rhoads in the US and conducting more testing I have found that if any lifter is on the cam when the engine stops it will, over time bleed down, if a lifter loses a lot of it's oil it will clatter badly, even after oil pressure is fully up.
I am resigned now to living with it, it just sounds terrible for quite a while after start up.
I do always however crank the engine until the oil pressure light goes out before adding fuel to enable it to fire up, getting full oil pressure to appear on the gauge whilst cranking takes a loooong time.
 
Last edited:
I have a lifter tic on my right bank.
It comes and goes ie some days its very audible and other days not even noticeable.
Ive had a Rover "man" observe the noise and he suggests redoing the valve gear - as he would ,coz my guess he's looking for work.
Im more "let sleeping dogs Lie"
Am I being naive ?
 
It's only four bolts to draw off the rocker assy, you can then slide the rockers along and see how worn the shafts are underneath.
Your tic is probably a lifter, depends on how tarred up your engine is as to whether you gamble flushing it, or even using one of the snake oil lifter quietening potions.
You could always turn the radio up............
 
My car had some tappet/lifter noise when I got it, so I puller the rocker assemblies and found the shafts badly damaged as below. I bought new aftermarket shafts and rockers from island4x4 (A$200 delivered), and with a couple of oil changes its now 99% silent, with only a little lifter tick occasionally. I doubt that these will wear out in my lifetime. Checked that oil does get to the rockers. I went so far as to drill out the sealing caps on one shaft to see what it was like inside - LOTS of congealed crud! Frequent oil changes, and flushing needed.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2032.JPG
    IMG_2032.JPG
    3.2 MB · Views: 6
If you have watched any good tennis you might see Rafa Nadal checking his hearing aids are working - he runs a finger over each ear before serving.
 
Which oil pump is your engine using? the gear pump or the crank driven pump? I'd advise against sliding the rockers along the shaft to check for wear on anything but a near new engine. When the shafts and rockers wear the do so as a matching set. Moving them out of position can cause them to mis align and wear faster until they are again bedded in. The Shafts are steel while the rockers are Aluminium. The rockers tend to wear oval but they are only loaded on one side and the hydraulic mechanism takes up the slack as they wear. So unless you have an issue with the setup leaving them alone is the best course of action. In most cases issues are with the lifter or cam. both of which are a pain to fix. Running a heavier grade oil may fix or lessen your problem if the lifter is just a bit leaky. Empty lifters have the inner piston supported by a spring and you can push it all the way down; when full there is very little movement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top