Take a look at “Brownie” probably the latest member

[DaV-8]

Hello Everyone,
I am a new member to the Rover P6 club and just wanted to introduce myself to my fellow P6 enthusiasts. My name is Dave Conway and I am the proud owner of my very first 1971 S2 P6 V8 Auto in Tobacco Leaf with black interior. I bought the car off ebay about 4 weeks ago.
My first journey after purchase was on the M25 where it overheated and had to pull up onto the hard shoulder and eventually got it trailered home by the AA as I could not start it.
When I first laid eyes on Brownie she was parked beside stinging nettles and was covered with snails, as she was neglected and had been sitting around for months because the owner had no time for her. I was very disappointed at first because it did not look like the photo on ebay, probably because the photo must have been taken a few months ago. Furthermore I am a complete novice when it comes to mechanics, however I am keen to learn and just need good guidance. Anyway, I managed to start her up after several attempts as I initially thought that the PET-RES knob was the choke, because the choke knob was broken. On my way home I kept watching the temp gauge and stopped a couple of times to cool her down, but the weather was against me as it was a HOT day and problems arose when I was stuck in traffic between Jnt 3&2 on the M25 and to add to my worries there was no hard shoulder for about 800yds, but all credit to Brownie as she got persevered and got me safely onto the hard shoulder under her own steam and once there, she almost immediately shut down herself.

The next day I gave her a good wash and polished her inside and out myself and I must admit she managed to put the smile back on my face as she cleaned up well.

I wanted to spoil her and bought a few spare parts and accessories off ebay and JRW. (New carpets but yet to be fitted as I want to sort out the weather seals first, ET headrests, Steering Wheel, door weather seals, thermostat, water pump, entire instrument panel as her clock, amp/oil pressure and rev counter was not working, classic radio, bonnet badge, lucas square 8’s, repair operation manual, etc. and needless to say I am in trouble with wife as I am spending too much. I agree with her but I still can’t stop myself from searching for P6 parts on ebay.

I took Brownie out for a spin last week and I noticed a few problems. Firstly she overheats when idle but not when the she is in motion. Secondly Oil pressure does not register, however oil lamp works when key in ignition and goes out when car started. Finally noise from rear brakes, as the disc rotates, it appears to be catching something and when I brake there is a grinding noise .I phoned a several local garages including Kwik-Fit and they will not touch it. Finally I was given a number from an ebay source, who I bought the water pump from and I am taking Brownie to see a mechanic in Chadwell Heath this evening, to find out if it is the rear pads that are worn or seized calipers. This will be my first opportunity to get a proper glimpse of her underside and I hope to take a few photos. Will let you know what the verdict is…..


….back from the garage with Brownie and I must hasten to add that it was a nervous drive. In the garage, I had a good look at her underside and one of the offside rear pads had come undone and was missing and the mechanic found it lodged at the top somewhere and managed to take it out. I have taken a photo of the rear pad and you can clearly see the wear on one side which has cause a lot of damage to the one of the discs and the respective caliper. In another photo you can see the piston where the rear pad should have been. I was told that I need rear discs (which I have), rear pads and rear calipers.

One saving grace regarding the overheating, as I was suspecting a blown head gasket which my neighbor was 99% sure and a mechanic friend of his stated that he would stake his mortgage on it. However when the mechanic carried out the gas test, the blue liquid did not change to yellow and most of the liquid was sucked in by the radiator, which ruled out the head gasket. I reckon an electric fan is the answer. Which is the most suitable one for the V8?

Can I also take this opportunity in asking you all, if you know of any fellow P6 enthusiast who lives near my area (Rainham, Essex.) who might be able to take a look at Brownie and carry out a general health check and assist me in my endeavors to make her better. I also feel she idles on the high side between 900 – 1000 rpm. Your comments and suggestions are most welcome in making Brownie look and feel better.

Apologies, for the long drawn out saga.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Rob M]

Great first post! I too am a "newbie" here and I couldnt have been made to feel more welcome. There is plenty of knowledge on here to draw on and im pretty sure that the issues you currently have will be resolved soon enough.
Fair play to you for driving it round the M25 when it was a complete unknown quantity and had been standing for ages, you Sir have some bottle!!!
Good luck!!
Rob

 

[Dave3066]

Hiya Dave and welcome to the forum

Looks like you've had an eventful time with your new purchase The car has cleaned up well.

The V8 engine can get a bit hot when sitting in slow moving or stationary traffic. I would suggest a full flush of the cooling system might help before looking at an electric fan. The mechanical fan is actually not too bad at keeping the engine from going critical in traffic provided the cooling system is operating efficiently. Once the system has been flushed through have a good look at the condition of the vanes in the radiator. If any of them are bent or crushed this will affect the radiators ability to cool. You can get special tools to reset the spacing of the vanes but I find a stanley knife blade works quite well too, just exercise care. The other key factor in the V8 cooling system is the flow from the inlet manifold tower to the radiator. The tower between the carbs has a small diameter pipe which runs to the radiator. This allows coolant flow throught what is usually the highest point of the system ie the carb tower. The small outlet that the pipe in the tower is attached to can become blocked so have a good poke in there with a suitably sized implement and make sure it is clear. Once you've done all that fill the system with a good quality coolant/water mix, around 50/50 should do and take the car out for a run to get it warm. Watch where the needle on the temperature gauge sits whilst the car is moving to get an idea of the normal operating temperature. If this starts to rise again when stationary increase the engne revs to around 2K and see if that brings the temperature down. It might seem counter-intuitive to rev the engine more when it is getting hotter but that actually makes the fan spin quicker and so shift more air too.

Let us know how you get on as there will be plenty of advice and help to keep you going

Dave

ps someone has nicked your radio :twisted:

 

[v8guy]

Hi Dave and welcome to the forum great first post, I know what a big smile it puts on your face when a car can be brought back from retirement with a bit of tlc, fettling, t-cut polish and wax having also done the said same on purchase of my p6. Good advise from Dave re the carb tower most important on the v8's that it is flowing freely. Quite sure there are a few p6 owners near you hopefully someone will com forward. Enjoy the experiance I do

 

[harveyp6]

That caliper looks to be very dry, so hopefully isn't leaking. Prising back the dustcover will tell for sure. It also would appear to have been adjusting up to get the piston cup that far out, so the handbrake must have been on when you took the pic. To replace the piston cup the caliper has to be removed and dismantled. It would be sensible to change the seal at the same time. Hopefully the only other parts you would need is the piston cup, disc, at least one pad slider and shim, and the set of pads, but you won't know until it all comes apart. Soak the flexi hose/metal pipe joint in penetrating fluid ASAP to make it easier to shift when the job gets underway. I used to get cars driven in like that when people had started the job and given up.....

 

[DaV-8]

Thanks guys for your lovely comments and advice.

The V8 engine can get a bit hot when sitting in slow moving or stationary traffic. I would suggest a full flush of the cooling system might help before looking at an electric fan. The mechanical fan is actually not too bad at keeping the engine from going critical in traffic provided the cooling system is operating efficiently. Once the system has been flushed through have a good look at the condition of the vanes in the radiator. If any of them are bent or crushed this will affect the radiators ability to cool. You can get special tools to reset the spacing of the vanes but I find a stanley knife blade works quite well too, just exercise care. The other key factor in the V8 cooling system is the flow from the inlet manifold tower to the radiator. The tower between the carbs has a small diameter pipe which runs to the radiator. This allows coolant flow throught what is usually the highest point of the system ie the carb tower. The small outlet that the pipe in the tower is attached to can become blocked so have a good poke in there with a suitably sized implement and make sure it is clear. Once you've done all that fill the system with a good quality coolant/water mix, around 50/50 should do and take the car out for a run to get it warm.

Thanks Dave, about a week ago I did use some radiator flush to clean the radiator and a lot of crap came out, when I drained it. I also back flushed the radiator with a garden hose held at the bottom and allowed the water to overflow from the radiator filler. My neighbor suggested removing the thermostat, which we did. I then filled the radiator with 40% coolant and 60% water and started the engine. The needle took a while to rise and eventually ended up just past 85 when idle after about 25 minutes. My neighbor stated that it should not heat up without a thermostat as the water is continuously flowing, it was then he suspected a head gasket problem.
I did not check the pipe that runs from the inlet manifold to the radiator. However I attempted to take the radiator out but I could not get to the oil pipes connected at the bottom. Am I right in guessing that these pipes are cooling the transmission fluid and would I need to drain the transmission fluid first before removing pipes?

 

[DaV-8]

Thanks guys for your lovely comments and advice.

The V8 engine can get a bit hot when sitting in slow moving or stationary traffic. I would suggest a full flush of the cooling system might help before looking at an electric fan. The mechanical fan is actually not too bad at keeping the engine from going critical in traffic provided the cooling system is operating efficiently. Once the system has been flushed through have a good look at the condition of the vanes in the radiator. If any of them are bent or crushed this will affect the radiators ability to cool. You can get special tools to reset the spacing of the vanes but I find a stanley knife blade works quite well too, just exercise care. The other key factor in the V8 cooling system is the flow from the inlet manifold tower to the radiator. The tower between the carbs has a small diameter pipe which runs to the radiator. This allows coolant flow throught what is usually the highest point of the system ie the carb tower. The small outlet that the pipe in the tower is attached to can become blocked so have a good poke in there with a suitably sized implement and make sure it is clear. Once you've done all that fill the system with a good quality coolant/water mix, around 50/50 should do and take the car out for a run to get it warm.

Thanks Dave, about a week ago I did use some radiator flush to clean the radiator and a lot of crap came out, when I drained it. I also back flushed the radiator with a garden hose held at the bottom and allowed the water to overflow from the radiator filler. My neighbor suggested removing the thermostat, which we did. I then filled the radiator with 40% coolant and 60% water and started the engine. The needle took a while to rise and eventually ended up just past 85 when idle after about 25 minutes. My neighbor stated that it should not heat up without a thermostat as the water is continuously flowing, it was then he suspected a head gasket problem.
I did not check the pipe that runs from the inlet manifold to the radiator. However I attempted to take the radiator out but I could not get to the oil pipes connected at the bottom. Am I right in guessing that these pipes are cooling the transmission fluid and would I need to drain the transmission fluid first before removing pipes?

 

[DaV-8]

That caliper looks to be very dry, so hopefully isn't leaking. Prising back the dustcover will tell for sure. It also would appear to have been adjusting up to get the piston cup that far out, so the handbrake must have been on when you took the pic.

Hi Harvey. I drove the car onto the ramp and left in in Park with the handbrake off. The mechanic did say that I am braking on the piston and that’s what is causing the grinding noise. The inside of the brake disc is heavily scored and grooved, it is not at all smooth in comparison to the other side.

To replace the piston cup the caliper has to be removed and dismantled. It would be sensible to change the seal at the same time. Hopefully the only other parts you would need is the piston cup, disc, at least one pad slider and shim, and the set of pads, but you won't know until it all comes apart.

Pardon my ignorance, as I am a complete novice and am learning with each passing day. When you say change the seal, do you mean the caliper seal?
Also the mechanic suggested me changing both rear calipers and rear brake pads, because it is a big awkward job, hence he reckoned it would be prudent to change the near side as well.
Cheers
Dave

 

[harveyp6]

Hi Harvey. I drove the car onto the ramp and left in in Park with the handbrake off. The mechanic did say that I am braking on the piston and that’s what is causing the grinding noise. The inside of the brake disc is heavily scored and grooved, it is not at all smooth in comparison to the other side.

If that pic is taken with the handbrake off then either the handbrake cable has been adjusted up in an effort to get a decent handbrake (which it won't) or the quadrant is seized at half travel. I suspect the former, and although your "mechanic" is correct when he says the piston is running on the disc and causing the noise, he doesn't have a clue further than that otherwise he would have noticed exactly the same things as I have.

Pardon my ignorance, as I am a complete novice and am learning with each passing day. When you say change the seal, do you mean the caliper seal?
Also the mechanic suggested me changing both rear calipers and rear brake pads, because it is a big awkward job, hence he reckoned it would be prudent to change the near side as well.
Cheers
Dave

I mean the hydraulic seal. It's shortsighted not to replace it while the caliper is off, and dismantled. You could do the other side at the same time if you wanted. He probably suggested replacing everything because he thinks that will be easier than sorting out what's there. If he really knew what he was dealing with he would know that overhauling the calipers you've got, would mean more money for him, and a smaller bill for you. Anyone who knows what they are doing would always try to repair rather than replace. The ideal way would be to have the caliper bores sleeved in stainless, and then rebuilt to avoid future problems with corrosion in the caliper bore. Replacement calipers are not sleeved AFAIK.
It probably is a "big awkward job".........For him.......


If you are looking to pay someone else to do the job for you because you don't feel confident enough to do it yourself, (nothing wrong with that) be very careful who you choose, as in my experience most people talk a good job, but when it actually comes around to doing it, they haven't got a clue.

 

[DaV-8]

If that pic is taken with the handbrake off then either the handbrake cable has been adjusted up in an effort to get a decent handbrake (which it won't) or the quadrant is seized at half travel. I suspect the former, and although your "mechanic" is correct when he says the piston is running on the disc and causing the noise, he doesn't have a clue further than that otherwise he would have noticed exactly the same things as I have.

You are absolutely right. I think the last time he changed rear brakes on a P6 was over 2 years ago. Their specialty is custom exhaust and welding.

If you are looking to pay someone else to do the job for you because you don't feel confident enough to do it yourself, (nothing wrong with that) be very careful who you choose, as in my experience most people talk a good job, but when it actually comes around to doing it, they haven't got a clue.

I am looking to pay someone to do the job as its not just that I don’t have the confidence, but also the expertise, knowledge and I have never changed brakes before. However I would attempt it if guided as I don’t mind getting my hands dirty. Also I’ve read that it is very hard to change them whilst lying on your back.
I am looking for someone reliable and who knows what they are doing, but I don’t know any P6 experts near my area. (Rainham, Essex). Is there someone you can suggest?
Cheers
Dave