Twin HIF6 Setup Guide

JVY

Active Member
Does anyone have a good proven guide on how to setup carbs on a 2200TC please?

Each year since I got my car, I have managed to balance my carb's and set the mixture OK using x2 Gunsons Colourtune plugs and a carb balancer.

Though my car was off the road for a year, every week I started her up and thoroughly warmed the engine and let it idle for about 20 minutes. Each time, she started OK and idled nice and smoothly at 600-700rpm. When I got back on the road I noticed two things:-

1. After driving only a few miles, the engine hesitated or stuttered under harder acceleration at about 3000-4000rpm. This happened 2 or 3 times going uphill and then went away. I have since clocked up about 200 miles and the problem has gone away - engine feels powerful and accelerates just fine.

2. Slowly but surely over last 200 miles, the engine at idle has become very erratic. Going by my rev counter, the rev's go between 500-750rpm and sometimes the engine stalls. As this has got worse, I started to notice that the engine is running less smoothly while driving at 1000-2000rpm.

I put problem 1 down to maybe stale fuel or muck in the tank or fuel lines as the car had been sitting for about a year.

With problem 2, I thought the car just needed her annual ignition points check/set, timing check/set and carb check/set. However, after 3-4 hours spent going over these checks, I cannot get the car to idle properly at anything below about 1200rpm!

One thing I did notice is that the problem might be with the front (cyl 1 & 2) carb when idling. With the colourtune plugs in cyl 2 & 3, I can see that cyl 3 has healthy looking constant combustion. However, looking at cyl 2, I can see that combustion is erratic. It looks like I maybe get a few good cycles with healthy mixture, then little or no combustion for a few cycles, then ignition comes back but is very rich for a few cycles. It then goes back to healthy and repeats this cycle. No matter how much I adjust the idle mixture or idle speed on the front carb it just won’t run properly like the rear one. As soon as I apply a bit of accelerator and both carb pistons lift a little, they both run fine (i.e. healthy mixture and combustion). When I return to idle, the pistons drop, idle is OK for several seconds, then the erratic front carb thing starts up again. If I set the idle speed at about 1200rpm or above the problem goes away.

I haven’t ruled out things like the fuel pump (air bubble in glass bowl of my mechanical pumps looks suspiciously large and close to the filter at idle and seems to fill up a bit with increased rev’s)? Also, perhaps, an air leak on inlet manifold for front carb? Could even be an ignition problem. I still also need to check valve clearances (though they were fine a few hundred miles ago).

Given that it only seems too affect cyl 1 & 2 and the problem only starts several seconds after return to idle, I keep thinking it is a fuel or carb problem. Or, maybe I am just not setting the carbs properly – hence the request for a good HIF6 setup guide. Of course, any thoughts or suggestions most welcome please.
 
Well your procedure for setting the carbs is spot on. Nothing to improve on there.

Two things spring to mind as possible causes. First is the jet assembly on the front carb with its bimetallic strip "thingy". They are known to fail. Second would be a problem with air sealing in the manifold between the front carb and the head. Could be the gasket between manifold and head, or could be the O ring in the flexible mounting arrangement of the carb.

Now Harvey will come along and tell me to stick to my favourite HS6's while he promotes the HIF6....

Chris
 
As Chris said above, there's nothing wrong with your set up procedure.

However, i think that it is a waste of time trying to set up 40 year old carbs.
HIFs have some rubber O rings in their enrichment device that can cause all sorts of running problems when old and perished.
Apart from that, floats can be found filled with petrol, throttle shaft seals deteriorate, big rubber O rings to manifold harden and don't seal properly, etc.
In a few words, it is time for a rebuilt, especially if no one touched them until now.
 
Thanks Chris & Demetris.

If I find nothing else obvious soon, I think the next option is carb and inlet manifold removal for an inspection and refurb. I was starting to wonder if this might be an idea from prevoius posts on similar issues. TBH, I have not noticed anything in the car history that tells of any carb refurb. Would a standard refurb kit include the bi-metallic "thingie" and o-rings on the flexible mount that you speak of?

As I said, one niggling idea I have is that the fuel pump isn't delivering enough fuel at idle (e.g. the resevoir on the front carb is not being topped up properly). So, if I wanted to replace the mechanical pump with an electric, is something like this Facet pump OK:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Facet-Rep...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item46043c0b97

It is rated at 12V 4-6 PSI and has 8mm tails. I guess I would also put an inline fuel filter on the supply pipe to the pump. Is it OK to mount an electric pump on the inner wing near the location of the mechanical pump?
 
Much better just to bung a refurb kit on the existing mechanical pump (valves and diaphragm). It's extremely rare for a 4 cyl to need an electric pump, but if you absolutely insist on unnecessary complication then at least fit a decent quality rotary one instead of this noisy rubbish!! (not biased or anything!) Try the Huco pumps listed here:

http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/index.html

Chris
 
Steve,

i wouldn't bother messing with the pump, in the 4 cyl cars they just go on forever, and when they eventually fail, a cheap rebuilt kit will make them keep going for another eternity.
You can check the burlen website for carb rebuild kits, using either your car type, or the SU code as it is engraved in the small alloy plates on the carbs.
I wouldn't exactly rush to change the bi-metalic strips, most of the times replacement of all rubber parts, needles and jets will do the job.
For carb flexi mount O rings and manifold gaskets i would go to a Rover specialist.
 
I wouldn't rule out a sticking float valve in the front carb. I know mine sticks on occassion even though I have replaced them with the grossvalve units. A tap on the top of my front float last week brought everything back to eveness.
 
Thanks again guys. I did refurb the pump a few years ago. So, will concentrate on carb's for now.

Haven't had time for Rover tinkering last couple of days as my wife's old V/hall Astra failed it's MOT :roll: . It failed on a total of x4 brake pipes. I had to replace the back ones to get it through the MOT about same time last year. It's the front pipes and long front to rear ones that have gone this time. Working in a modern engine is horrible - obviously wasn't desinged with the home mechanic in mind.

Maybe if I convince the Missus I have saved her a couple of hundred quid doing her brake pipes, I can "earn" enough points for a Burlen refurb kit..............?
 
I wouldn't rule out spindle wear.

give Gower and Lee a call and see what they can do, they have done HIF carbs for me in the past and recently a pair HS6. They are worth the extra.

Colin
 
I took all the above advice into account and removed the inlet manifold and carbs at the weekend.

About the first thing I noticed was that the lower bolt holding the front carb onto the inlet manifold was (very) loose. Also, the 2.5" O rings that form the seal between carb and inlet manfild were slightly damaged. The only other thing that seemd to be wrong was the float hieght needed setting on both carbs (by bending the little brass pads that acts on the closing valve).

I put it all back on the engine and tightened up the carb/inlet bolts a bit extra on the front carb and JVY is now running very nicley :D :D :mrgreen: . So. thanks for some excellent advice :D .

I have ordered some new O rings and will fit them just to be sure.

Some minor questions please:

1. Each carb has a special 1/2" bolt top and bottom that attaches it to the inlet manifold. On my car, I found that only the top bolts on each carb had what looked like an extra large spring washer on it. The lower bolt on each carb had just the special bolt and no spring - is this correct or should the lower bolts have the springs as well?

2. What torque/tightness should these special bolts be set to? I was worried that if I screwed them all the way in that the O rings would be crushed and damaged?

3. On the top of the twin carb assembly there is a spring about 1/2" diamter and maybe 3-4" long. It connects the plate that braces the carb inlet ports together onto the inlet manifold. The tension of the spring can be adjusted using a nyloc nut on the brace plate end. Again, how tight should this be? I am assunming the idea is that it supports the weight of the carb assemblies. However, too tight and I was worried it would result in these O rings misaligning and causing another air leak.

Will try to post some pic's when I have a moment in case the above doesn't make sense.
 
I have a 2200TC and I am removing the cylinder head this week. I will take some photos as I take off the carbs / look for the springs on the lower bolts.



I have the official Rover 2000/2200 repair manual. Regarding the spring :-

"Adjust the support tension so that it will maintain the carburetter assembly at right angles to the manifold as viewed at the adaptor to manifold faces. This may have to be re-adjusted to compensate for the additional weight when the air cleaner assembly is fitted."

There is no torque wrench setting specified for these special bolts.
 
Many thanks Pat. It would be interesting to know what you find on yours. The manual advice on the spring sounds sensible and it is what I did when I refitted the carb's. I only have a Haynes manuals plus a few other guide books and I couldn't see any mention of how to set the spring or special bolts. When I refitted, I put a couple of spring washers on the lower special bolts as, without them, I reckoned there was nothing to stop the carbs tilting away from the bottom of the inlet manifold. The only thing I am unsure about now when it comes to fitting the new 2.5" carb to manifold o-rings is how tight I should screw the carb's into the manifold? Failing any further info, I suppose I will just make them tight enough (plus a little bit) to stop any air being drawn in.

BTW, I remembered you had a 2200TC. How is it going? I assume you have some problem and that's why you are taking the head off :?:

I got the pic's I took that might help:
 

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More pic's:
 

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JVY said:
When I refitted, I put a couple of spring washers on the lower special bolts as, without them, I reckoned there was nothing to stop the carbs tilting away from the bottom of the inlet manifold.

AFAIK because of the special washers on the top bolts the bottom aren't supposed to have any washers at all, the idea being it allows the carbs to flex, while being controlled by the aforementioned special washer at the top, with the head of the bolt at the bottom acting as a stop.
 
The Rovering Member said:
I don't recall ever seeing those washers on any of my cars at all. :shock: I need to check my parts books I think.

Don't look too hard. Those washers are an unofficial mod by the looks of it, so you won't find them in the book.
 
Thanks Harvey. This does makes sense. However, I am thinking, even if the bottom bolts are screwed in nice and snug on assembly, the whole carb assembly shakes about a fair bit with engine vibration and I would worry they might work loose (I'm guessing this is what happened to mine?). Do you think I should take the lower spring washers back off :?: :D I'm asking myself WWHD (What Would Harvey Do) :?: :D . Now I won't be able to sleep tonight - unless some anaesthetic is taken of course :D .
 
JVY said:
Thanks Harvey. This does makes sense. However, I am thinking, even if the bottom bolts are screwed in nice and snug on assembly, the whole carb assembly shakes about a fair bit with engine vibration and I would worry they might work loose (I'm guessing this is what happened to mine?). Do you think I should take the lower spring washers back off :?: :D I'm asking myself WWHD (What Would Harvey Do) :?: :D . Now I won't be able to sleep tonight - unless some anaesthetic is taken of course :D .

2200TC's generally run pretty smoothly so if that's not the case then I'd be looking into that, but the idea is that they're supposed to be flexibly mounted, and the thicker part of the bolt means it can be tight while still retaining a gap, it's just that yours has now got a washer on the bottom, and a curly washer on the top. I don't think it's worth losing sleep over, but in six months time you may find yourself wondering where that annoying rattle under the carbs is coming from. I can't see what harm the top ones are going to do, as they won't be loose.
 
Will post up the pictures as I take off the carbs.

The car runs terrible at the moment rough on tickover, no power and trying to stall at traffic lights. I checked the valve clearances and 3 exhaust valves are essentially at zero! Given that the 4 pot cars are susceptible to valve problems and looking at the state of some of the valves pictured on this forum, I have decided to do the extra work and remove the head. I know the 2200TC is supposed to be a smooth and fairly powerful unit; I suspect this work will transform the car.
 
Some pictures of my carbs during head strip. Mine don't have any washers at all !
 

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