Rumblin_Ron
New Member
Planning a Christmas present for Ron. Is it worth fitting a Webber 4 barrel carb and manifold ?. The SU's are in fine fettle, but I do like to play when allowed.
Webber Carb - Any good ?
- Thread starter Rumblin_Ron
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The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
The tuning guide in 'classic car weekly' seemed to think not. Some people think differently. I've got a Holley set-up to fit to ours which I got cheap so I'm going to try it. I've also read it's silly not to fit a high-lift cam & Mallory dizzy as well if you fit a 4 barrel carb. What views on that? Saying that, the custom estate (where my Holley came from) which I bought & passed on to Rich Moon which you all saw on ebay & here, stonked along beautifully with the high-lift & carb. Not sure if it had a Mallory. I don't think so though.
I've had two cars with webber 4 barrel carbs on. Although they have certainly performed a lot better overall it's difficult to get the idle and part throttle as good the SU carbs.
Spent a considerable time messing around with both set ups and now i've decided that fuel injection is the way to go. Look at this way a webber set up costs about £650 new. You can buy a secondhand vogue for £500 with hotwire injection set up on it and probably sell the rest to recoup you some cash after stealing the fuel system.
Spent a considerable time messing around with both set ups and now i've decided that fuel injection is the way to go. Look at this way a webber set up costs about £650 new. You can buy a secondhand vogue for £500 with hotwire injection set up on it and probably sell the rest to recoup you some cash after stealing the fuel system.
steveg1664
New Member
Although marketed as a Weber the four barrel carb is actually a Holley design. In theory they should flow more air than two SUs on full throttle but be less thirsty on small throttle openings, also having an accelerator pump system they should give better pick up. I say in theory because things are not always what they seem, it doesn't matter how big a carb you stick on an engine if the head can't flow the air and thats where the Rover V8 falls down. This is no critisism of the 3500 engine, remember it was an old design when Rover accquired it, but to run a four choke it needs a cam and ideally head work to get the best from it.
Guy Engelsman
New Member
Ron
Why stop at only one webber? Why not go nuts and have two 4 barrel jobs, or 4 2 barrel? The ultimate would be point fuel injection with a single ram tube per cylinder ( anyone else seen the Jag XK 13 lately!!!)
All silliness aside a 4 barrel Holley/Webber will give good top end but awful low end pull. Depending on model they do flow up to 850cfm, and the Rover V8 only needs 280cfm to run well. End result is that the engine gets over fueled and runs like a pig. Flow the heads, SD1 big valve heads are good, and free flow exhaust, along with a fast road cam will give the best increase in stomp.
Fuel injection is also very easy to do. I get my setups from a mob called Triumph Rover Spares in South Australia and for AUS$1650 you get the whole setup with the ECU already mapped with basic Rover program, yet with a laptop can be easily tuned up. Makes the car so easy to live with, just twist the key and go.
Electronic distributer also helps with reliability and tuning.
Cheers
GUY
Why stop at only one webber? Why not go nuts and have two 4 barrel jobs, or 4 2 barrel? The ultimate would be point fuel injection with a single ram tube per cylinder ( anyone else seen the Jag XK 13 lately!!!)
All silliness aside a 4 barrel Holley/Webber will give good top end but awful low end pull. Depending on model they do flow up to 850cfm, and the Rover V8 only needs 280cfm to run well. End result is that the engine gets over fueled and runs like a pig. Flow the heads, SD1 big valve heads are good, and free flow exhaust, along with a fast road cam will give the best increase in stomp.
Fuel injection is also very easy to do. I get my setups from a mob called Triumph Rover Spares in South Australia and for AUS$1650 you get the whole setup with the ECU already mapped with basic Rover program, yet with a laptop can be easily tuned up. Makes the car so easy to live with, just twist the key and go.
Electronic distributer also helps with reliability and tuning.
Cheers
GUY
mrtask
Well-Known Member
I swapped my SUs for an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold and a Holley 390 with an electronic choke, and jetted it to suit the Kent 214 'fast road' cam. It was immediately more responsive all the way through the rev range, and contrary to Guy Engelsman's experience it pulled like a train all the way from a standing start. In fact, I would describe the difference in character and characteristics as quite phenomenal! I'm told the Weber 4 barrel is even easier to tune than the 390 Holley, and RPI do a nice linkage for the kick-down if you have an automatic, although I cobbled up my own using a few bits off the original linkage without any real effort. I always found that my SUs seemed to momentarily hesitate when I floored it, but the Holley just takes off!
Rumblin_Ron
New Member
What to decide, what to decide. I rather liked Guys suggestion with intake trumpets pointing skywards like a racer. I got exited at pictures of the rover efi manifold untill I realised the plunium (?) box covered it all up ! I dont like the look of the Rover injection setup (on a old car) and would like something more trad, or go all in and radical. From what's been said theres no advantage in the Webber unless I uprate everything else, The SU's with K&N's work fine (tuned on a rolling road) so I will stick with those, thanks for the advice and saving me £600 !!!!
As an aside when I replaced the cam I put a standard 3.9 cam in, I went all stingy at the price of uprated cams (about £100 more at the time). The cam works well, but I wish I'd taken the jump and installed a uprated one, its cheap power !!, although being an auto Ron hardly every revs above 4000rpm, so a hi rev racy cam would be no good.
Since I'v saved my money I might play with a side exit rumblin exhaust instead. Can you fit the 3500S downpipes to Y piece on a auto ?
Thanks
Ron :
:
As an aside when I replaced the cam I put a standard 3.9 cam in, I went all stingy at the price of uprated cams (about £100 more at the time). The cam works well, but I wish I'd taken the jump and installed a uprated one, its cheap power !!, although being an auto Ron hardly every revs above 4000rpm, so a hi rev racy cam would be no good.
Since I'v saved my money I might play with a side exit rumblin exhaust instead. Can you fit the 3500S downpipes to Y piece on a auto ?
Thanks
Ron :
:Just caught up with this thread... Ive been playing MG's and ignoring the Rover.
YES the webber is DEFINATELY worth the money so long as the ignition system is in fine fettle.
Since you were so keen to spend £600, why not spend half of that on a new Mallory dizzy and the rest on a new exhaust?
If you want to go the side pipe route, dont bother connecting them into a Y-piece. Would suggest you get some tubular manifolds with two matching downpipes. Run these into a pair on chevrolet turbo mufflers (1 each side) and then have the pipes exit just infront of the rear tyres.
The chevvy turbo silencers have no baffles as such. They just have fan blades in side forcing the exhaust gasses to spin round in a spiral. It takes the crack that you would here on open headers out of the V8 note but its still bloody loud.
Alternatively, Why dont you cut two great big holes in the bonnet and just have the 8 primarys come out through holes in the bonnet.... well you said the trumpets on injection systems give you the horn!
I think a P6 with 8 exhaust pipes coming through the bonnet would be sexy. Certainly cheap! :blues:
YES the webber is DEFINATELY worth the money so long as the ignition system is in fine fettle.
Since you were so keen to spend £600, why not spend half of that on a new Mallory dizzy and the rest on a new exhaust?
If you want to go the side pipe route, dont bother connecting them into a Y-piece. Would suggest you get some tubular manifolds with two matching downpipes. Run these into a pair on chevrolet turbo mufflers (1 each side) and then have the pipes exit just infront of the rear tyres.
The chevvy turbo silencers have no baffles as such. They just have fan blades in side forcing the exhaust gasses to spin round in a spiral. It takes the crack that you would here on open headers out of the V8 note but its still bloody loud.
Alternatively, Why dont you cut two great big holes in the bonnet and just have the 8 primarys come out through holes in the bonnet.... well you said the trumpets on injection systems give you the horn!
I think a P6 with 8 exhaust pipes coming through the bonnet would be sexy.
Certainly cheap! :blues:Rumblin_Ron
New Member
Hi JC
Exhaust through the bonnet !? the windscreen would get dirty ! (I'm not going to paint Ron mat black either). I have been told bringing the exhaust into a single pipe works better and gives a good V8 rumble, but I'v checked out US "mufflers" and they are just what I cannot find in the UK.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/exhaust/muffler_apps.shtml
http://www.pypesexhaust.com/tips.html
mY PERFECT engine looks like this
ooooh !
but its far to expensive, even for my burning pockets (hey I don't smoke, drink little and don't have Sky !)
Whats the advantage of a Mallory dizzy ?
I suppose Ron is going a little mild custom, but its all bolt on and hopefully fun.
Exhaust through the bonnet !? the windscreen would get dirty ! (I'm not going to paint Ron mat black either). I have been told bringing the exhaust into a single pipe works better and gives a good V8 rumble, but I'v checked out US "mufflers" and they are just what I cannot find in the UK.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/exhaust/muffler_apps.shtml
http://www.pypesexhaust.com/tips.html
mY PERFECT engine looks like this
ooooh !
but its far to expensive, even for my burning pockets (hey I don't smoke, drink little and don't have Sky !)
Whats the advantage of a Mallory dizzy ?
I suppose Ron is going a little mild custom, but its all bolt on and hopefully fun.
Click this link and turn your speakers up....
http://www.frankdegroot.eu.tf/
Hit refresh a few times if you want...
THAT is why a twin system is better than a single.
I have a friend in the MGOC who runs a BGTV8 dragster. Essentially it is the same engine as the P6 with stage 2 heads and lots of nitrous.
He badly needed a new dizzy. Timing at idle was all over the shop but it ran OK for his 1/4 miles efforts.
The ignition system IMHO is the MOST important aspect of the car.
The advantage of a mallory is you are going back to that factory fresh setup with the benefit of electronic ignition too!
Although, thinking about it, you could easily get an EDIS system hooked up to the V8 which is much better than any dizzy could ever be.
I have a friend who manufactures EDIS kits for MGB's He says he has done a map for a V8. My car will be his guineapig for further R+D once its back on the road.
Want me to dig out his details?
-Jon.
http://www.frankdegroot.eu.tf/
Hit refresh a few times if you want...
THAT is why a twin system is better than a single.
I have a friend in the MGOC who runs a BGTV8 dragster. Essentially it is the same engine as the P6 with stage 2 heads and lots of nitrous.
He badly needed a new dizzy. Timing at idle was all over the shop but it ran OK for his 1/4 miles efforts.
The ignition system IMHO is the MOST important aspect of the car.
The advantage of a mallory is you are going back to that factory fresh setup with the benefit of electronic ignition too!
Although, thinking about it, you could easily get an EDIS system hooked up to the V8 which is much better than any dizzy could ever be.
I have a friend who manufactures EDIS kits for MGB's He says he has done a map for a V8. My car will be his guineapig for further R+D once its back on the road.
Want me to dig out his details?
-Jon.