1972 2000 TC, Black Betty

Hi everyone, I thought it was about time I started my project thread.

Firstly, I bought the car from a friend in September 2015 for after he found it in his dad's garage. It had been there since 1981, untouched by everything but the sun and with only 4632 miles on the clock. The paint was scorched as well as the rear seats, the front passenger wing and boot both had minor dents. Upon arrival the first thing my dad did was check the sills, footwells, wheel arches and boot for rust. So far, no rust or signs of welding. Not much to do! (or so we thought). Not being able to drive at the time, she sat on my drive for 5 months whilst my dad and I tinkered here and there.

We drained the fuel tank and put some fresh in and turned her over. The plugs where shot so a new set was installed along with a new dizzy cap, leads, points, rotor arm and condenser. After the parts finally arrived and where fit we turned her over again. She started at last! however, It was rough. The bearings in the water pump had gone for starters. I managed to source a refurbished one for £25 so in that went and the old one is in storage waiting to be sent for reconditioning.

Even after the new ignition parts, she was only running on 3 pots, so the compression tester was out and confirmed low compression on cylinder 3 and it was dropping constantly. So the head came off, after eliminating any other possibilities, for a new head gasket. The red hermetite had failed causing an air leak. New gasket was £16 from an ebay supplier, with more than 20 available at the time of writing, just in case you need one! Whilst the head was off we decided to check the valves and found hardened valves already in place somehow. Or at least, my dad seems to think they are hardened upon close inspection. Checking the camshaft revealed no scoring, marks or any indication that the car had done any more than the miles on the clock either so I still can't figure out how the head gasket failed in such a low number of miles.

Did I do something to cause the failure and if so, what and how do I prevent it happening again?

Finally and after hours of fiddling about with the head, we managed to rebuild and fire her up. Smooth sailing! Apart from a hole in the exhaust manifold which we managed to weld up, she sounded smooth and content at last.

We then bled the brakes before attempting to drive, which was my first encounter with the de Dion suspension and inboard brakes. Oh, the fun we had with that!

Following this, we took her for an mot just to find out what we had missed and what more was needed. She passed with flying colours!

The bodywork was simple enough, the dents in both the boot and front wing where smoothed out and filled and the black was applied after several hours of prep. The result. Black Betty as she is today.

I'll put a few pictures up when I find them but here is a list of what we have done so far;

New; Condenser, Rotor arm, Points, Dizzy cap, HT Leads, Plugs, Head Gasket, Water Pump, Float assembly for front and back float chambers, fuel pipe from the pump to carbs, misc rubber parts like window seals, air filters, oil filter, bottom heater hose and heater outlet hoses and finally a nice new coat of paint.

I will be bleeding the clutch and putting new brake pads on the front passenger side today if all goes well. Alongside trying to find out why the brake piston is sticking in the first place. Fingers crossed!

Thanks for reading and I'll post some photos to Photobucket at this link: dominicyates1994's Library Slideshow

Cheers,
Dominic
 
Hi Dominic

I've just had some work done on my 4 pot's head and the performance engine builders I took it to said as it's an alloy head it would have hardened seats from the factory? After over 70,000 miles on unleaded with an additive my head shows no signs of valve seat recession. The most common reason for low compression on these engines tends to be either burnt valves or incorrect valve clearances. In terms of fitting the head, I fit it dry, ie no sealant of any kind. Have you joined the Rover P6 Club yet? They do the complete 4 pot workshop manual and parts catalogue on a single CD. Well worth having.

Car looks great. Love that interior colour!

Well done getting the car running smoothly again. As always, the more you use it the better it will get :)

Dave
 
Great progress with her Dominic. Rear brake setup is fun isn't it? Sounds like you're ready to roll and keep on improving the car. On the front calipers the good news is that it's a common part used on many cars of the era, if things look bad on the stick piston replacements are available fairly inexpensively on eBay.

I've not seen anybody use hermatite red on a head gasket before. I wonder if failure was down to that being used?
 
I will get the CD as soon as from the owners club, I joined recently which led me here to begin with. The rear brakes where a nightmare for me, my dad just grinned knowing if I learn how to do it, he doesn't need to in future! I've found a set of pads that seem to be the right ones. They are for a 70'2 mark 2 ford of some kind, I'll be checking that tomorrow. I've bled the clutch and have found a slight leak on the slave cylinder so I'm assuming a seal has gone somewhere. I only managed an hour or so today unfortunately. I'm swapping the carpet at the end of the month due to discolouring, going for black I think :) I'm wanting to get it on the ramps at my local garage for the underseal refreshing, can't wait for that one! And yeah, we didn't have access to a booth at the time so an outside job was required :/
 
So, after a good couple of hours, the brake pads have been swapped out for new and the clutch is still faulty! We bled it again according to the procedure in the manual due to a lack of resistance on the pedal. It didn't work. We inspected the master cylinder and found nothing wrong, the slave cylinder is the problem I think. The clutch is engaging but not disengaging and after looking, the slave cylinder piston... thing (sorry, I'm not sure what it is yet!) isn't springing back like it should. I'm going to get back out after a warm cuppa and try to figure it out. Any thoughts or problems that you guys have had? cheers :)
 
Sounds like you got a nice little car there. Bet there aren't many about with mileage that low, Dominic? How much did you pay for if you don't mind me asking? I thought mine was low mileage for it's year at 71860! I love the Rover, having had 2 P5's in the early 70's and an 820 in early 2000. My son has had his share of 25's, 45's, and a 75. Also gave him my 820 when we were bought a new car. I bought my 1972 2000TC March 2nd 2016 for £350 and after myself and my son giving a quick once over we found it needs one helluva lot of welding and plating! I am now in the process of sorting that out. You can follow my project here: My 2000TC 'Minstrel' needs a lot of TLC.. and my photos are here: Rover P6 2000TC by Restivo57. According to the last MOT in Novenber 2015, my 2000TC failed on corrosion and brakes. Engine is a bit lumpy but runs ok. Had to drive it about 10 miles when I bought it. Considering it had been standing for 2 years prior to me buying it, I thought it ran well. Got a big shock when we checked the last MOT out though.
Hope you sort your clutch problem out ok. Wonder if you need new seals on the slave cylinder?
There's a lot of great guys on Classic Rover Forum and always someone ready to help you out. Have a look on Facebook as well. There are a couple of good P6 pages and also classic rover pages.
Good luck with your project, m8. may see you at a Classic Car Show at some point. All the best...Steve :cool:
 
Hi Steve, sounds like you've got a nice project on your hands and it's good to see a father and son both on board team rover! My dad has had a few p6's both 2000 and 3500 and he's wanting another one as soon as. I'll have a look at your thread and pictures and see what I have to look forward to or have already done :D I got it for £750 only due to it being a non runner and the guy just wanted it gone. A bargain in my opinion, especially with the mileage, which I struggled to believe at first. I've ordered new seals for the slave cylinder which should arrive sometime next week so I'll be posting the results soon. I can't wait for my for my first show. I've been looking forward to going to one since I got the car and I'm almost there I hope. I'll have a look on facebook and see how many pages I can join. Thanks Steve :D
 
Where are you from, Dominic. I'm just outside Lowestoft Suffolk. We've got a few Classic Car Shows coming up over the next few months around this area, so I got to get a move on. Doesn't help with my son being away at sea for a month at a time. I'll make sure he makes up for it when he gets home. lol. I agree, you got a bargain with your TC!
 
Sorry for the late response Stephen, I'm on the outskirts of Barnsley but I'm more than happy to travel for shows. I love the way the p6 drives and long journeys are a delight as long as the car keeps motoring on that is! Still no clutch at the moment though :( At least the Minstrel will be getting some TLC whilst he is away though right? I look forward to seeing it at a show one day :D I really like the white!
 
Hi Dominic
I have just added an update to my project page. Welded a new floor panel in The Minstrel today. Not been able to do much over the last few days as my son and daughter-in-law have been moving. Well my daughter-in-law and grandson. Unfortunately my son is at sea atm and won't be home for a couple of weeks. So really been busy last few days. I gotta repair Shelley's car this weekend as the f/n/s drive shaft is a bit dodgy and the wheel-bearing is on the knock. So won't be doing much in the next few days to The Minstrel either. The Focus always seems to play up when my son goes to sea. Lol
Like you say, it would be good to meet up at a show of these days. I look forward to it. Hope your project goes to plan, m8.
All the best
Steve ;)
 
Good morning Stephen,
Sorry for the late response, I've been in London for a few days. I've just had a look at the welding, looks like it was fun! It also always seems to be the case in my eyes. As soon as your help is needed elsewhere, hell rains down in a cluster of faults! My dad is working nights for a while whilst I'm sorting Betty out. With my knowledge it's not going very quickly! The seals for the clutch master cylinder have arrived however, so I will be attacking that today. I was going to get a new master and slave cylinder but my "consultant" at the local said they are in perfect working order, it's just the rubbers that have perished with them being dry as a bone for 30 years and finally getting used. Hopefully, after over a week using my dad's Consul, I can drive my car!!! (Fingers and toes crossed at this point).

Good luck with the motors Stephen,
Dom
 
Hi Dom
Done a bit more welding. Started on the underneath now. I am hoping to get the n/s inner sill done by next weekend. I would like to do it all in one piece. I have some nice long channels of galvanised I want to use for that little job. Just doing the bit behind the r/n/s wheel arch today. Getting the curves and the angles right are tricky when there is nothing to work to. Lol.
Glad your slave and master cylinders are ok. They can be a nightmare even on newer cars! I see you had fun with the brakes and suspension. I have got to sort the brakes out when I have done the welding. Not looking forward to that little job! Part of the failure was on the rear brakes. I'll let you know how I get on. :)
What Consul has your dad got? My favourite model was the MKIII Consul 375 although the MKII Zephyrs and Zodiacs are my all time favourite cars.
Hope all goes well for getting Betty on the road next week.
Happy motoring, Dom.
Steve :)
 
Hi Stephen, I know what you mean with the curves, we had the same problem with my uncles 53 Anglia. No arches left so fabrication was tricky and frankly, quite stressful! It's great to see it coming along, your progress is certainly showing in the photos! I spent the whole of yesterday and today on Betty and to be honest, I'm not a happy bunny! I replaced the seals on the master cylinder only to over-tighten the intake nut on the slave cylinder, snapping the valve clean off. I managed to get a replacement this morning and have only just stopped. This however, is only due to failure :(

The cylinders are fitted and I've bled the system about 4 times today, even trying to reverse bleed. I cannot get the air out of the system even with new seals on the master and a brand new slave. I've gone through a good litre of fluid (thankfully I have 2-3 gallons due to a very well prepared and generous dad) and I've resentfully called it quits. I'm taking her round to the local tomorrow and I'm going to watch every move they make and try to figure out where I went wrong. Besides the monumental screw up on the slave of course.

The consul is a mark III I believe, I'm not too sure to be honest, I haven't yet learned about his car due to the time it's taking me to learn about mine! Here are a couple of pictures.

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s467/dominicyates1994/Green_Machine_3_zpsevq1cuig.jpg

Thanks and once again, good luck Stephen :)
 
Hi Dom.
Sorry to hear you snapped the nut of the cylinder. Sometimes you have to make that kind of mistake so you remember the next time. Done things like that myself. Can't say I learnt by the mistake cos I done more than once. Lol. Did you user a self-bleed kit? Personally I don't think you beat the original 2 man way to bleed the brakes. I had a similar situation on my Renault Scenic a couple of weeks ago when I replaced the rear pads and calipers. I done a similar thing to you with the bleed nipple on the n/s caliper. I couldn't figure out why it was so hard to open. I found out though! I have never had the calipers apart since I bought the car 3 years ago and it had new pads when I bought it. Whoever had changed the pads prior to me buying it had cross-threaded the bleed nipple. So with me opening it and then closing it, I stripped the thread! I wasn't a happy bunny either! So I had to go back up the scrap yard and buy another caliper! At first I used a self-bleeder to bleed the brake. No matter how I tried with the bleed kit I couldn't get the brakes feeling right. They just kept feeling spongy. So next day I got my daughter in law to the press the pedal for me while I opened and closed the nipples. Brakes were fine after that. They must have been ok cos it passed the MOT on Monday!
Work on The Minstrel went well today. This is what I got done today:










This is underneath the car behind the n/s wheel arch and the n/s inner wheel arch. Had previously cut all the main rust our last week so basically today was just cleaning it up and prep it and weld the new plating on. Was going well until about 3.0.clock this afternoon. I ran out of wire. Fortunately I had another 5kg spool in my shed. problem was that the spool itself was broken. So I had to figure a way to cover the side that was broken so I could transfer the wire onto a good spool using an electric drill. Solved that problem by cutting circular plate of metal and cable tied it to the broken spool. Drilled a hole through the centre. Clamped a piece of 1/2" pipe in the vice and put the now fixed spool on it. Put the drill with the new spool attached to it in another vice. Then I very carefully transferred about 1kg of wire to the new spool. By the time I had done that it was about time to clear up. Another day tomorrow.
Let me know how you get on with the brakes on Betty. I love your dad's Consul! (Sorry, don't like the colour though. Lol). I hope you get Betty sorted and get her on the road soon as. Good luck with that, m8.
Cheers, Dom
Steve
 
Hi Dom. There's been a change in the restoration project on The Minstrel. It has become a Grandfather, son and grandson project. My 9 year old grandson was help me and my son this morning to start replacing the window scrapers/weather seals on the driver's door. He undone all the bolts we needed to take off. I didn't realise how much of a job it was just to take the scrapers out. All the chrome window runner has to be undone and moved to get at the metal strip for the scraper. I was just hoping to get away with taking the walnut panel and metal plate off the door and winding the window down to get at the scraper. No such luck! As I had a wedding to attend this afternoon I didn't have lot of time to spend on her this morning. I got a set of replacement scrapers from J R Wadhams Ltd | Contact Us for £29 inc pp. I know they are only the rubber part of the scraper but I can add a strip of aluminium when I replace each rubber. I had made 3 or 4 different inquiries regarding prices and had been quoted between £50-£80 for a set. £29 was more in my pocket. I have added some more to my project page on the forum yesterday. I will be adding some more later tonight or tomorrow to include the work doing the driver door scraper. It will most likely be tomorrow as I will hopefully finish the driver door scraper in the morning...weather permitting. Hope you are have success with Black Betty? Cheers, Dom. Catch up again soon.....Steve :):cool:
 
Hi all. Black Betty has been... troublesome of late. I'm glad to see the minstrel is coming along Steve and it must be fantastic having your grandson help out. Family time is precious and scarce nowadays and it's good to see you are having your fill in the nice weather we've been having. Well done on the welding once again, the progress is astounding and I can't wait to see it someday.

After a new master and slave cylinder, I had to also replace;

Both front brake pistons as both had seized and then cracked when loosened.
Exhaust manifold had to be welded thus requiring a new one in the near future.
Fuel reserve tap and fuel pump as both failed one week apart.
Brake fluid reservoir as the filter... thing split and started to crumble into the fluid.
Brakes bled AGAIN which was joined by ill timed rain. And lots of it.
New thermostat and temp sender which still for some reason isn't working as the engine is rapidly reaching the red bar.
Little rubber busher in the front carb dash pot, which admittedly took me about a week to pinpoint as a problem.

Now for a possibly contentious question to all of you miraculous mechanics. What is needed to put a Rover 3500 V8 engine and gearbox into a 2000 TC as far as new parts/modifications are concerned?

Thank you in anticipation of your replies and it's good to be back.
Dom
 
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