A 'gentle' rebuild of my 3500

Nice job with the sump replacement Mike :D

It is always satisfying getting a job done you've been meaning to tackle for a while, especially one which you're not looking forward to :?
 
Hi Mike,

Nice job with the sump gasket replacement :D Is your transmission a GM180 or the BW65? Reason I ask is I don't recall seeing the bracket before which joints the sump to the bell housing. The P6B sumps have the drain plug beneath and no bracket like yours.

With the springs, as you say, being stiffer than the originals, their overall length should be less so as to maintain the ride height within spec. I fitted Australian made K-Mac springs to my Rover in 1990, and they were some 30% stiffer than the original Rover springs. Their overall length was slightly shorter than the original springs whilst the diameter of the steel bar used in their fabrication was larger. The uprated front springs from memory were around 2 inches shorter than the originals.

Ron.
 
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Is your transmission a GM180 or the BW65? Reason I ask is I don't recall seeing the bracket before which joints the sump to the bell housing.

That bracket is standard on the SD1 with BW65. Not sure if the same applies to GM180 though.
 
harveyp6 said:
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Is your transmission a GM180 or the BW65? Reason I ask is I don't recall seeing the bracket before which joints the sump to the bell housing.

That bracket is standard on the SD1 with BW65. Not sure if the same applies to GM180 though.

Ron,

Harvey's right as sometime between 2008 and 2010 an SD1 engine and box were fitted.

DaveHerns said:
I prefer the look of a P6 which is high at the rear . Can it be too high ?

Actually Dave a few people have commented on the ride height at the rear and say it gives it that 70s modified look, almost Starsky & Hutch Gran Torino style :LOL:
 
Mikep said:
Another thing that has been bugging me over recent weeks has been the ride height at the back of my car. Having been to a number of shows recently I have been able to compare my car to others and it does appear mine sits at least an inch too high. ck: The extra coil will explain the higher ride height. How can this be the case, I assumed the 'heavy duty' springs would be the same height just 'beefier' perhaps.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Hi Mike,

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious to you, but have you checked your car to the WM ride height spec? Comparing with other cars isn't necessarily the definitive answer...there are a lot of saggy P6's out there!

I fitted heavy duty springs (from Ian) to Occie and the ride height came back to spec within a gnat's doodah and, whilst a little firmer than before, the handling seems so much better.

Cheers,
Stan
 
vaultsman said:
Mikep said:
Another thing that has been bugging me over recent weeks has been the ride height at the back of my car. Having been to a number of shows recently I have been able to compare my car to others and it does appear mine sits at least an inch too high. ck: The extra coil will explain the higher ride height. How can this be the case, I assumed the 'heavy duty' springs would be the same height just 'beefier' perhaps.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Hi Mike,

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious to you, but have you checked your car to the WM ride height spec? Comparing with other cars isn't necessarily the definitive answer...there are a lot of saggy P6's out there!

I fitted heavy duty springs (from Ian) to Occie and the ride height came back to spec within a gnat's doodah and, whilst a little firmer than before, the handling seems so much better.

Cheers,
Stan

Hi Stan,

I have been meaning to check the WM for the ride height. I hear what you're saying about saggy springs and that is something that I bear in mind when checking other cars, so until I measure mine maybe I shouldn't jump to any conclusions :)
 
Another busy day of tackling the list of jobs that I have to do :roll: But I have to admit that I do enjoy tinkering :D

First was to repair the top of the drivers seat. The seat had an ugly tear that had been badly repaired at some point and a chance conversation some weeks back with a club member at a show yielded a replacement seat back that I collected at this months club meet :D





I was given three seat backs to try of which two were actually for the passenger side and one for the drivers. Unfortunatley what I thought was going going to be a simple swap wasn't the case as the replacement had a tear at the bottom :( Once I'd had a good look at the way the seat back was constructed I could see that I could simply swap the top of the seats over thereby retaining my original seat back.


Replacement with a tear at the bottom.

After picking away the staples and removing the four screws the top simply pulled off and it was just a matter of fitting it to my seat back with some 6mm staples which were just short enough not to pierce the fabric. All in all a relatively easy job but the transformation was amazing :D



Second job was to remove and refurbish the wiper motor, delay governor and both wiper wheel boxes and tubes. I have found that as well as no delay wipe my wipers are very slow. When I removed the complete motor unit I found one of the rubber mounts had snapped so that would intoduce movement when the wipers operated, so I will need to replace that. I then dismantled the motor completely and set about cleaning all the parts. I'm also taking the oppurtunity to re-paint the motor housing as it is a little rusty.












Armature housing in primer.

I have yet to dismantle the delay governor but i did notice when I took everything apart and checking against the WM that a spring on the outside relating to the delay mechanism was missing and I don't seem to have the slider block that sits inside. I must add that I do have the later Lucus 16W fitted that the book refers to. Maybe the absence of these components has some part in explaing why the delay doesn't work :roll: Both the images below show diagrams of the wiper motor with the missing items highlighted in red.


Missing spring


Missing slide block.

TBH I can't really see what the slide block does, but the reassembly instructions is very specific about which way it refitted. I assume this is part of the delay mechanism?
I will be phoning around tomorrow for these missing items but the parts manual doesn't show either as available seperately. I wll also add these images to a post in the wanted section, but if anyone has either of these spare I would be very interested in taking these off your hands :D
 
Likewise here Mike, that seat repair looks a very smart piece of work!

It's been a few years since I overhauled Occie's wiper motor, but the slider block and spring were certainly present. Perhaps your wiper motor was replaced at some point with a non-delay unit?

I've never used this supplier, but heard some good words said about him: http://www.willsparrow.com/16w.htm - he may be a source for bits.

Also, I found this Lucas document a good while ago - there's a section on wiper motors: http://www.atcc.org.nz/tcc/LucasFault.pdf

Your "gentle" rebuild's looking good all round!
 
Good work on the seat Mike, I also didn't know it came apart like that 8)

Another job on my todo list is to fix the lack of delay on my wipers, so I shall be keeping an even closer eye on this thread to check your progress :D
 
Mike, you can get away without the spring, the slider will return to it's original position on it's own, the spring just guarantees it.

I bought some NOS wiper motor mounts from RPS on eBay, they were a bit pricey but do the job right.
 
testrider said:
Mike, you can get away without the spring, the slider will return to it's original position on it's own, the spring just guarantees it.

I bought some NOS wiper motor mounts from RPS on eBay, they were a bit pricey but do the job right.

Thanks for that Paul but I called Geoff at winns this morning and he found me one :)

One of my mounts had been replaced by a bolt with a section of fuel tube as a spacer. I was going to do this as well for all of them. Do I really need the rubber mounts?
 
Continued today with the refurbishment of my wiper motor and linkages.

I managed to source the missing spring as I said above and it transpired that the plastic slider I thought should be inside was part of the 'Park' mechanism from an earlier model. So as I wasn't waiting for an internal component I set about rebuilding the complete wiper motor after giving the motor case a few coats of satin black.

Everything went back together with ease and I packed out the internals with plenty of grease. Once that was finished I moved onto stripping and refurbishing the vacum delay governor.


Finished wiper mechanism. Not much to look at but far cleaner than when it came out.



While I had the motor out I thought it best to remove the wheel boxes and tubes. I cleaned out all the old grease and reassembled them. One thing to bear in mind when putting the back plates back on the wheel boxes is not to overtighten the nuts as this 'clamps' the gear wheels and causes them to bind, they are then harder to turn. loosening them a bit allows the wheels to spin. I think this may have contributed to the slow speed of the wipers.

Since owning the car my delay setting has never worked and when selected the wipers operated constantly. I had read a lot about the infamous bit of sponge being the usual cause for the lack of delay. I took quite a few pictures for those of you that have yet to dismantle this unit so hopefully this will help. To be honest its an incredibly simple bit of kit.



Very dirty and covered in loads of overspray from a previous respray :roll:

The actual unit is simply split by removing the four clips. I was aware of the large spring inside and was carful to hold the two halves together but I found that the hakves were tight and had to be prised apart anyway.



Next I removed the diaphragm from the housing. Simply pull off the plastic cap on the end of the piston and withdraw the diaphragm.




You can now see once the diaphragm is removed the contacts.

Once all that was clean I moved onto the other half that contains the sponge. All you need to do is pick out the metal retaining plate and under that should be a bit of sponge then a rubber membrane. There were remnants of the sponge but it had basically disintergrated.


The plate, membrane and case minus the sponge


I had read a few threads about the type of sponge to use, so I elected to use a bit of my brand new car sponge from Halfords. I cut a cube roughly by eye to fill the hole and you can see the rubber membrane in place before I added the sponge and held it all down with the metal plate.

Once it was all clean I reassembled the unit. Here you can just make out the yellow sponge in the top.




All finished and ready to fit to the car :D

One problem that I had was that two of the rubber mounts for the whole mechanism were damaged and one had been replaced with a bolt and some fuel hose. I decided to remove the only good one and replace all three with my own improvised mounts consisting of bolts and fuel pipe. I think they turned out really well and hold the motor securely.






All fitted and ready for test. The bottom picture clearly shows the spring that was missing. I did run the wipers without it and even though the plastic slide returned to the bottom the spring does speed that process up considerably.
Anyway as far as testing the wipers on both normal and fast no longer juddered and were alot quicker even on a dry screen. the big test was the delay. Had I fixed it...... The answer was YES :D
Turning the white knob by the steering wheel gave me full control of the delay. Now ehn its spitting I wont have to keep reaching to flick the wipers on and off.
One thing I've noticed is having removed the wheel boxes and refitting them my wipers are now sitting slightly lower thereby not fouling on the bonnet when I lift it. Obviously someone in the past hadn't fitted them properly. They are held in with rubber mounts so I made sure everything was straight and tight when it went in.

All in all a couple of days work, taking my time and what a massive difference it has made. Well worth doing if your wipers are slow or more importantly if the delay is kaput.
 
Excellent work there Mike:- nicely done and very informative with all those pictures :D

I hope to be able to do mine, as soon as I have finished installing SWMBO's new k1tch3n (honestly we did actually need one :shock: )
 
Top result there Mike. :D I must say that I do like the new rubber mounts that you put together using bolts and fuel hose. Two of my mounts have broken, so I shall kindly borrow your idea and replace all three. :wink:

Thanks for sharing,
Ron.
 
Thanks chaps, I thought it best to get a few photos up as I couldn't find any myself.

SydneyRoverP6B said:
Top result there Mike. :D I must say that I do like the new rubber mounts that you put together using bolts and fuel hose. Two of my mounts have broken, so I shall kindly borrow your idea and replace all three. :wink:

Thanks for sharing,
Ron.

This method seems to work very well, I'm glad its something you want do as well Ron :D
 
Its been a while since I've posted in this thread as I've been busy getting the car sorted out after its MOT. Some of you may have read my previous post about my car failing its MOT, much to my surprise :shock:

It failed on a leaking rear passenger side caliper which I hoped was really a pipe. But unfortunately it was a leaking caliper :( A couple of years back it was elected to replace three of the calipers and change the seals in the fourth. Guess which was the leaking caliper :roll: Due to my lack of having a suitable trolley jack to get the car high enough and the thought of doing the brakes on my back as opposed to the pit I used last time I employed the services of a fellow forum member, GrimV8, to swap over the caliper, which he duly did. And he replaced a pipe under there for good measure. After collecting the car I took it straight to the MOT centre wherby it passed with flying colours :D The bonus to this was even though it was nearly two weeks since the initial test they didn't charge me for a re-test :D

Whilst GrimV8 had my car I mentioned the poor running that has become more apparent of the last few months. We have come to the conclusion that the carbs are long past a rebuild. The L\H carb seems reluctant to hold a steady idle so I'm going to replace the current butterflies that have poppet valves with solid ones as we think this may be a contributing factor to the L\H carb running worse than the R\H. Also there appears to be slight wear in the throttle spindles so I think both will need re-bushing. To top it off they both leak fuel from the float bowls :shock:

The only fly in the ointment is that a recommended refurbisher of carbs that I have called can't begin to start work on my carbs for at least four weeks due to thier heavy workload and I can't find anyone else who will re-bush the throttle spindles. I have elected to do the rest of the service on both carbs myself.

However, seeing as I'm going to remove the carbs I have decided to also remove the inlet manifold to give it a good clean, change my rocker cover gaskets for rubber ones as the left hand one seemed to let some smoke out recently (more of that in a bit) and they're weeping oil in places. I also need to checked the rear valley seal as I have a bit of oil around the area so for good measure I'm going to change the front and rear seals as well as the valley gasket. All of this will give me the oppurtunity to give the hard to reach external areas a clean.

Both my heater hose have seen better days so they will be replaced and while im in the mood for dismantling everthing I think now would be a good time to remove and refurbish my heater! I've always got hot air in the car so I think my foam seals have seen better days :roll:

Im also going to have to tackle the rear ride height of the car as its become very apparent whillst parked next to other P6s at show that mine sits way too high. Its almost got the same look and rake as Starsky & Hutch's Gran Torino! The rear spring were purchased new two years ago and I've done 2000 miles since fitting so I would have thought that if they needed 'bedding' in that would have happend by now :? I think that they are of poor quality and are too stiff for the car so I'm on the lookout for some good used rear springs if anyone can help.

Back to the smoke I mentioned!

Over the last few weeks I have been suffering with really bad fuel vapourisation which I didn't seem to suffer with last summer. I'm reluctant to drive the car on even a slightly warm day because of fear of sitting in traffic. The car doesn't overheat at all but in no time at all will I hear the electric pump start clattering away and if I don't pull over sharpish I find myself stranded and blocking traffic.

Over the past twelve months I have addressed all the cooling problems I had experienced so you would think that vapouristion would not occur. I appreaciate that the poor state of tune of my carbs appear to give me a lean mixture, in turn higher engine temp, but this issue of vapourisation is rendering the car undriveable :( The pump I currently have fitted was on the car when I purchased it and is a very cheap Facet Posi-flow pump. I don't think the poor performance of this pump is helping so I will be replacing this as well.
What I'm baffled by is that other P6 owners I meet don't suffer from vapouristion and even run the original mechanical pumps! With all of my upgrades you would of thought only the hottest days would cause problems. Back to this smoke. Whillst struggling to get into a local car show a couple of weeks back and having pulled over three times in the last two hours to cool things down I popped the bonnet to let some heat out. When I felt the pump it and the fuel pipes were quite hot and the fuel filter empty. When I looked at the filter I saw what can only be described as smoke, more likely oil vapour, escaping from the front of the rocker cover gasket :shock: Things obviously getting a bit warm in there and the vapour escaping from the gasket. Is this normal to have this amount of vapour in the rocker covers? Barring of cousre a knackered gasket.

All in all a busy few weeks ahead. I will get some pictures up as I contend with jobs. Heres hoping I have no hiccups :LOL:

PS

Here's a picture on the way home from a local pub meet last weekend :D

 
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