Daily driver - now time for a freshen up

Tom W

Tom W

Active Member
Now I've got my P6 on the road, I'm starting to use it as a daily driver. The plan is to carry out a few sensible modifications to improve the day to day usability of the car, as well as rolling restoration and repair as I go.

I got the car working and legal on Saturday, so decided to throw it in at the deep end with a 180mile round trip to Norwich as a shake down run. This revealed a few minor things to address, but the car seems remarkably sound.

The main idea is to improve the day to day usability, rather than increasing outright performance. Mods will be focused on reliability, economy, comfort and refinement, and making sure the thing doesn't dissolve at the first sign of rain. I'll also be focusing on making sure things are working as the factory intended. In many cases, replacing new for old might be enough to bring things up to standard.

So far I've carried out a couple of modifications as part of the restoration work. I've fitted headlamp bowls that take modern bulbs. I didn't drive the car before so I have no comparison, but the lights are fantastic, especially main beam with all 4 lights on. These are as good as the lights on any other car I've driven. Well worth doing. I've also fitted goodridge brake hoses. This was a bit of a no brainer, as the 4 rubber ones on the car needed replacing anyway. The brakes work really well, and I like the safety of the braided hoses, especially on a single line system.

I've got a few things on my to do list for improvement so far. There is quite a lot of transmission and engine noise at cruising speed. I'm going to look at improving the sound insulation in the transmission tunnel area. There's also a really annoying rattle from the gear linkage that I need to sort too. I'd also like to upgrade the stereo, but in a discreet manner, so it's not apparent from looking at it. I know that period headunits can be rebuilt with modern internals, but that's rather expensive. I'm going to investigate fitting some modern speakers in place of the originals, and also wire in some ipod connectivity.

As far as the mechanical side of things go there's not too much on the list yet. The car is plenty fast enough so nothing needed there. Eventually some new dampers wouldn't go a miss, as everything is a bit bouncy at the moment.

I will be posting details of progress as I go along, and also thoughts and feelings on the successfulness, or otherwise of any upgrades.

Anyway, I know you all like pics, so here's a pic outside the pub in a village on the outskirts of Norwich, basking in the sunshine after the run over. I think I should add getting the colour to a single shade of brown to my to do list too. :LOL:
 

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Re: Daily driver

Tom W said:
There is quite a lot of transmission and engine noise at cruising speed. I'm going to look at improving the sound insulation in the transmission tunnel area. There's also a really annoying rattle from the gear linkage that I need to sort too. I'd also like to upgrade the stereo, but in a discreet manner, so it's not apparent from looking at it. I know that period headunits can be rebuilt with modern internals, but that's rather expensive. I'm going to investigate fitting some modern speakers in place of the originals, and also wire in some ipod connectivity.
Click to expand...

If you can tolerate this guys annoying voice; an excellent install for sound installation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5E9mjI3y1E&playnext_from=TL&videos=ASJcuhEF7w0

I see one of your other cars is an XJ-R so you would immediately notice the difference in internal noise between the vehicles

Dynamat, Dynapad and Second skin are the current state-of-the-art for DIY car sound installation. I'd start with the firewall, then the transmission tunnel. Spen King, in an '02 interview, says noise transmitting through the firewall was a P6 problem

Nice ride!

GW
 
Re: Daily driver

Thanks for the info. You're right, that is an annoying voice, but that looks like the type of thing I need to do.

A couple of other things I've added to my to do list, are fitting a passenger side mirror, and fitting rear seat belts. I'm considering bullet mirrors, just because they're cool and I've always wanted a car with bullet mirrors. Am I correct in thinking the P6 base unit has mountings for seatbelts already fitted, I just need to buy some and bolt them in?
 
Re: Daily driver

Tom W said:
Am I correct in thinking the P6 base unit has mountings for seatbelts already fitted, I just need to buy some and bolt them in?
Click to expand...

Yes. I fitted a set from a BMW E30 3 Series which fits perfectly, but obviously buying new is to be preferred.
 
Re: Daily driver

Looks like you have the agenda sorted as far as sound insulation goes! The partner to this activity is to minimise the wind noise, either by adjusting doors and window frames and / or by fitting new sealing rubbers. Anything rubber is available from Scott's Old Auto Rubber in Oz as first choice - by far the best quality. In the noise department make sure all the rubber gaskets sealing the gear lever and handbrake openings are in place correctly and also carefully check the front bulkhead for missing or missplaced rubber bungs.

Rear belts are either available new from Securon - check their web site as to what you want, then buy elsewhere for a much better price - or use Jag XJ6 SIII from a scrap yard. You are correect that the mounts are already in place.

I would want to add a rear fog warning lamp. You can buy new pull switches with a warning light in the top identical to the HRW pull switch (or is yours late enough to have a rocker switch?). Buy one with an amber warning lens then swap the red cover to the fog lamp and use the new yellow one on the HRW.

Also on the lighting front, I have made a few mods to Lucky which will appear with pictures later. I intend Lucky as able to be used as a daily driver, so for my money a third high level stop lamp is essential. I fitted one from an XK8 Convertible, which looks right mounted on the boot lid. With the spare wheel on it just nestles under the back edge of the wheel. I also think there is insufficient tail lamp area showing for modern motorways, so I have converted the bottom reversing lamp in each light cluster to a taillamp. To acquire the red lens I used Series one lenses and stripped the foil backing to the bottom of the reflector out so that the lamp is now able to shine through the reflector lens. This, of course, needed a new reversing lamp, so a pair of classic Lucas lamps went under the bumper, one as a reversing lamp and one with a red bulb as the rear fog lamp. Looks like it was built that way unless you know!

You will know your dampers are US with a few sleeping policeman excursions. The rears will also allow you a lurid power slide away from a T junction when properly worn. When you decide to replace them, there's really no point trying to fit standard spec ones. The P6 responds extremely well to somewhat stronger front dampers in particular. At the moment the only sensible choice is GAZ adjustable from either Wynns or Alan Ramsbottom. They are very expensive though, so probably best left to a happy birthday at next MoT. When you fit the fronts, fit an uprated front roll bar and you will convert the car from ponderous at low speed to an equal for the best modern hatchs. Effectively this restores the suspension to the spec the Rover engineers intended as evidenced by the Talago's and the spec for the 2000S. The sales dep't made them build it with soggy dampers and roll bar - remember this is 1963! - and then BL never updated it.

Engine wise I do think you will appreciate fitting electronic ignition, Magnecor plug leads and an electric cooling fan instead of the mechanical. On completion make sure you get a decent rolling road tune. You will be stunned at the improvement in driveability and economy.

Chris
 
Re: Daily driver

Hi Chris, it sounds like you've got all the daily driver mods well sorted.

I like the sound of the uprated suspension. The soft suspension makes it very comfortable but it rolls around massively and isn't particularly sharp in the corners. Improving this without ruining the ride quality would be great.

I'd been wondering about rear fog lights. Mine has the rocker switch for the heated rear window, but similar switches seem quite readily available, so I should be able to wire in something that looks factory original. Alternatively, is it possible to modify the headlight switch so the fog light setting operates a rear light and leaves the headlights on? I don't have any front fog lights fitted (yet). I don't have a boot mounted spare, but I can look into fitting a high level brake light inside the rear window. Jag XJs have glass mounted lights that might be suitable.

I'd not thought of a rolling road tune, but that's something I'll look into when I'm certain everything's running OK. I've just renewed the leads and fitted a new contact breaker, rotor arm, dizzy cap and condenser. Everything's running OK at the moment, but how long it takes to go out of tune remains to be seen. These parts weren't too expensive though, so I don't mind spending again to upgrade to electronic ignition. Is this really a fit and forget mod?

I've also been wondering about luxurys such as electric windows and central locking, but these will be projects for the future.

Thanks,

Tom
 
Re: Daily driver

Hi,

Nice car and I agree with the idea to improve it to use it to modernish standards as a "daily driver"

Please do not fit a rear foglamp. I am, have been and always will be a biker. Why anyone wants to fit a brighter light to the back of a ton of metal careering down the road I do not know. They dazzle, don't tell me you haven't been annoyed by them yourself whilst in a a car because thay are BRIGHT. And, whilst illuminated, they will mask your brake lights so if you should stop in a hurry it may be a few seconds before the following driver realises you have put your brakes on..........

Believe me in a helmet behind a visor they DAZZLE.

They are the worst ever pandering to ideas of supposedly increasing safety, so please do not do it!

Robin
 
Re: Daily driver

The sales dep't made them build it with soggy dampers and roll bar - remember this is 1963! - and then BL never updated it.
Click to expand...

2nd the GAZ shocks, pricey, but worth it! Uprated front roll bar looks like this: ( ClasseParts ) and is similarly expensive,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110549442436&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

a less expensive compromise would be fitting uprated springs, with the Gaz shocks

1963 indeed, and the sales department were targeting the USA market with the NADA P6's; :idea: if Americans didn't get sea-sick with the pronounced levels of list from their domestic vehicles, then we'll let them eat cake :roll:

GW
 
Re: Daily driver

was given an estimate of a little bit over NZ$120.00 to have one made here in Christchurch (NZ). I will get around shortly to getting mine made in 25mm steel.
Unfortunatley I have new shocks but just the standard Munroes.

Graeme
 
Re: Daily driver

Hi Robin.

I agree 100% for most cases - but they are worth the crack in a real pea souper. Then again we rarely seem to get them any more. They used to be very common when I started driving. Another indicator to climate change? For exactly the reasons you state I mount mine well away from the rear lamp cluster and also insist on having a high level stoplamp as well, so that it is clear that something lights up that isn't mixed up in the other lights. It's exactly the nutters carreering around on motorways whom I wish to have as much opportunity as possible to see my pride and joy and avoid hitting it! The thing to have a go at is not the fitting of rear fogs, it's the people who don't understand when to use them!

Chris
 
Re: Daily driver

Hi Tom

I fitted uprated rear springs which I had wound to Rover HD spec (it's in the workshop manual!) when I fitted the uprated front antiroll bar. The roll bar increases the front roll stiffnes, so to maintain the handling balance - which is delightfully neutral in standard trim; try a long open corner at speed to confirm - you need to then increase the rear roll stiffness by the same proportion. The combination of stiffer dampers (and with GAZ you can adjust to get your own best compromise between ride and handling) the stiffer roll bar and the rear springs takes the suspension spec as near as dammit to 2000S spec. There is no deterioration at all in rear ride quality, front is slightly jiggly at low speed on mine, but you could back the dampoers off a tad if you were unhapy with that.

The payback is superb behaviour through roundabouts and low speed direction changes with no effect on high speed comfort.

There's one other tip I forgot to pass on. The P6 is unexpectedly sensitive to tracking, ie toe in / toe out. This is because there is a lot of camber change with suspension compression at the front. Ignore the figures in the book of words which allow you a range of settings, make quite certain you have yours set to ZERO, ie no toe in or toe out. This will make the car noticeably more stable in straight line running.

Chris
 
Re: Daily driver

In my daily driver 820, I have fitted uprated anti roll bars from the vitesse sport model, they are approx 50% thicker than the weedy standard ones. I haven't uprated springs or shocks, just the bars, I also run standard 15" wheels with 195/65 as opposed to the 17" and 215/45 or something like that would be standard on the vitesse sport.

The great thing about this setup is that in a straight line it's just the same as standard, lovely and soft and comfy, I've driven a vitesse sport and they're not !, you dodge pot holes like dodging bullets.

But the best bit is that when you get to corners, the bars kick in and it really has cut body roll considerably, obviously it's not the ultimate handler as the tyres roll in a little etc, but a massive difference over standard.

So I guess what I'm saying is maybe just fitting the uprated anti roll bar would be a good compromise for a daily driver, maybe also fitting a rear one ? (does anybody have a kit for this)
 
Re: Daily driver

Indeed so. I talked through with him how he'd done it and my conclusion was that it was a very bespoke set up. The one he did went in partnership with an extra roll bar at low level a la Ford on the front as well as the uprated standard one, so there really was a need to balance with a substantial increase in rear roll stiffness. The front bar he can supply for anyone to fit, the rear really needed your motor with him for a week. Hence why I decided to increase the rear roll stiffness by firming up the springs. The increase isn't a huge amount though and I can't tell the difference to ride quality at the rear. Because of the P6's tendency to lurch understeer on turn in with the standard dampers at least 50% of the benefit comes from the stronger front dampers. So the front roll bar upgrade is the icing on the cake rather than the whole event.

Chris
 
Re: Daily driver

Well, there's the first week of using the car everyday over with, without major drama too. Reckon I've covered upwards of 250 miles!! :D

I've got a few things on the to do list to sort. There's a clonk from the rear suspension when the car is laden (4 people). I'm going to check the condition of the de-dion elbows, but I suspect this is a suspension or damper bush. I need to fix the annoying rattle from the transmission tunnel area. I think this is the gear linkage, since the noise goes away when gentle pressure is applied to the gear lever. It could do with a new water pump some time soon, the bearings are quite noisy. Then I can start putting some pennies aside for some upgrades.

I'm impressed with how well the P6 drives, it feels like a very modern car, and I don't think I'll have any comfort problems using it as a daily driver. I'm going to start working out my fuel economy, as I see this as the only problem to using the car everyday. Super unleaded and and additive gets quite expensive. :(
 
Re: Daily driver

2.2TC doesn't really need to superplus & additive, valve seats should be fine, I ran mine for years on bog standard unleaded without problem. If your worried, just go for standard & additive.

Economy shouldn't be too bad, can't remember what mine did but it wasn't terrible, of course it all depends on how heavy the right foot is :LOL:
 
Re: Daily driver

Mine still has a sticker in the back window saying to use only 98 octane 4 star as a minimum.
 
Re: Daily driver

Well that's nearly two weeks down, without major drama (touch wood), but I could really do with improving the fuel economy. I filled up at the start of the week, and now 250 miles later, it's empty again :shock: . I've driven it pretty steadily most of the time, and my daily commute is mainly down b-roads, around 50mph max.

What MPG is to be expected from a 2200tc? I will work out what my MPG has been when I refill, but I don't think it's been that great :( What can be done to improve MPG? I'm going to start with the simple stuff, like checking tyre pressures, and making sure it's all running as it should. It's been suggested on here that electronic ignition and an electric fan will improve things significantly. Electronic ignition is cheap and looks easy to install. An electric fan looks a little more involved. Kenlowes and the like seem expensive new, so maybe it's time to head off down the breakers and see what else is out there that will fit.

Are there any other straightforward tricks to improving economy?
 
Re: Daily driver

Before you start thinking about improvements it is worth to bring the car in mechanically as new condition.

There's no point in thinking about electric cooling fans if your air filters are dirty, the carbs worn out, ignition marginal, brakes binding and wheel alignment all over the place (as i have found out personaly recently :oops: ).

As a comparison my 2000 TC will do on average 30+ MPG on gentle use. A 2200 TC should be slightly worse.
 
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