Heater box
- Thread starter Marc Verspecht
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Marc Verspecht
Member
Ok no problem , are the blade from your fan counter clockwise like it is supposed to be ?
cobraboy
Well-Known Member
I'll throw up a pic of it, then you can be sure you want it.
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
That'll be interesting to compare.
Don't drop it on your foot.
The metal the cover was pressed from was very thin, difficult to weld tidily. No matter though l think the bulkhead may need some surgery too.
Don't drop it on your foot.
The metal the cover was pressed from was very thin, difficult to weld tidily. No matter though l think the bulkhead may need some surgery too.
Marc Verspecht
Member
Ok thanks you cheers.
Demetris
Well-Known Member
I think that i have solved the mystery of the fan rotation, but you are not going to like it.
Metro heater boxes were different between LHD and RHD, due to the handed fitment. It looks as though one type was a mirror image of the other, and as a result the fan had to rotate in different directions to compensate.
So you actually need a fan out of a LHD Metro in order to work correctly in a P6 heater box. Apologies if i mislead people with this.
At this point, if someone wants to upgrade, i think it would be better to fit a modern generic motor/fan. They come in all sorts of combinations regarding dimentions and rotation direction in order to work with the P6 heater box.
RHD Metro
LHD Metro
Metro heater boxes were different between LHD and RHD, due to the handed fitment. It looks as though one type was a mirror image of the other, and as a result the fan had to rotate in different directions to compensate.
So you actually need a fan out of a LHD Metro in order to work correctly in a P6 heater box. Apologies if i mislead people with this.
At this point, if someone wants to upgrade, i think it would be better to fit a modern generic motor/fan. They come in all sorts of combinations regarding dimentions and rotation direction in order to work with the P6 heater box.
RHD Metro
LHD Metro
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Well there's a turn-up for the books. Good research there, Demetris.
Although here at post #27, Andrew has also done the mod' & reports improvement over the original fan:
Heather motor upgrade.
l'm assuming he would have used the fan from a U.K. Metro too. So l'm thinking that even if the fan isn't shovelling the air directly into the air chamber the more powerful Metro unit is still able to offer a significant improvement over the much smaller original. If a RHD fan can be turned backwards on its shaft then that would make it more efficient but for the moment l'll carry on regardless in the morning & get some testing done even though l won't have the added advantage of ram-air flowing through the intake. After all this seems to be the first time that a write-up of a work in progress has been done, so no-one knew of the difference in Metro heaters either side of the channel until now & assuming there have been more than a couple of people who have done the mod' they'll have mostly been RHD Metro units used.
At post #22 you'll also see photos of Cobraboy's Metro fan unit with the blades the same way round as mine. With Marc being on the continent it may be prudent for him to have a good search for the unit from a scrapped LHD Metro but if my suspicions prove correct then the RHD unit may still be a forward step in P6 ventilation.
I'm not sure how Andrew only needed a couple of millimetres extra clearance at the rear end though.
Although here at post #27, Andrew has also done the mod' & reports improvement over the original fan:
Heather motor upgrade.
l'm assuming he would have used the fan from a U.K. Metro too. So l'm thinking that even if the fan isn't shovelling the air directly into the air chamber the more powerful Metro unit is still able to offer a significant improvement over the much smaller original. If a RHD fan can be turned backwards on its shaft then that would make it more efficient but for the moment l'll carry on regardless in the morning & get some testing done even though l won't have the added advantage of ram-air flowing through the intake. After all this seems to be the first time that a write-up of a work in progress has been done, so no-one knew of the difference in Metro heaters either side of the channel until now & assuming there have been more than a couple of people who have done the mod' they'll have mostly been RHD Metro units used.
At post #22 you'll also see photos of Cobraboy's Metro fan unit with the blades the same way round as mine. With Marc being on the continent it may be prudent for him to have a good search for the unit from a scrapped LHD Metro but if my suspicions prove correct then the RHD unit may still be a forward step in P6 ventilation.
I'm not sure how Andrew only needed a couple of millimetres extra clearance at the rear end though.
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The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Actually l think the backplate is important as the motor chamber has access to the main air chamber through some holes in the sideplate between them, presumably for some airflow so it doesn't overheat in use. That means without the backplate the main chamber is open to the outside air.
cobraboy
Well-Known Member
Only pulling your leg, I tried pulling my leg. but it hurt too much.That'll be interesting to compare.
Don't drop it on your foot.
The metal the cover was pressed from was very thin, difficult to weld tidily. No matter though l think the bulkhead may need some surgery too.
cobraboy
Well-Known Member
Marc Verspecht
Member
Hello I am going to look for a other solution do tho the fact that the flaps are in the opposite direction too . I am going to try a Mitsubishi fan. I hope to inform you al on that project.
cobraboy
Well-Known Member
No problem
I'll polish it up and put it on my mantle piece.
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Have a look at your fan fixing, Mark. Is it the same as this or does it have a metal clip holding it?
What l've found is that with the rotation as marked here, in favour of the blades, it's all but useless. But reverse the polarity & spin the fan against the blade profile you get a pretty healthy airflow, which is what Demetris predicted.
Whether it's better than the P6 original l don't know, l suspect it's at least equal but may be able to compare the output against my other unit on Saturday when l take the heater over to Richard.
If the fan could be reversed on the shaft bringing the profile of the blades then l think the output would be blinding but looking at mine it doesn't look likely. Alexandra who reconditions the heaters has a video on Youtube servicing a heater motor like this, with the same fan held on by a metal clip which with difficulty, she removes successfully. Mine doesn't have a clip as you can see & the Metro box had never been apart as far as l could tell so possibly this was heat shrunk onto the shaft or somesuch. So l'm just wondering what your fan fixing looks like & if you would consider removal if you were doing the job. Though looking at the shape of it l think it may end up on the wrong part of the shaft even if successfully reversed.
Alex's video:
Ok, l've just noticed her fan is the one needed for the P6.
I'll message her again.
Anyway, wiring spliced with the P6 colours, resistor swapped for the Metro & the extended cover attached with some foam to accommodate the slightly distorted base plate:
What l've found is that with the rotation as marked here, in favour of the blades, it's all but useless. But reverse the polarity & spin the fan against the blade profile you get a pretty healthy airflow, which is what Demetris predicted.
Whether it's better than the P6 original l don't know, l suspect it's at least equal but may be able to compare the output against my other unit on Saturday when l take the heater over to Richard.
If the fan could be reversed on the shaft bringing the profile of the blades then l think the output would be blinding but looking at mine it doesn't look likely. Alexandra who reconditions the heaters has a video on Youtube servicing a heater motor like this, with the same fan held on by a metal clip which with difficulty, she removes successfully. Mine doesn't have a clip as you can see & the Metro box had never been apart as far as l could tell so possibly this was heat shrunk onto the shaft or somesuch. So l'm just wondering what your fan fixing looks like & if you would consider removal if you were doing the job.
Though looking at the shape of it l think it may end up on the wrong part of the shaft even if successfully reversed.Alex's video:
Ok, l've just noticed her fan is the one needed for the P6.
I'll message her again.
Anyway, wiring spliced with the P6 colours, resistor swapped for the Metro & the extended cover attached with some foam to accommodate the slightly distorted base plate:
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The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Alex said it's P6. The early cars had the metal fan l took out of this box but changed to the plastic ones later on, which isn't surprising.
Still smaller than the Metro one though.
What a barrel of worms, it's all Demetris' fault you know.
Still smaller than the Metro one though.
What a barrel of worms, it's all Demetris' fault you know.
Marc Verspecht
Member
I have both of them with clip en one with bold , today we did some testing with a Mitsubishi Colt fan en I think we are going to make en attempt to fit it . It's the right rotation and it is not so big . I will make pictures tho chow the way we attempt to fit it . Thank you very much everyone for your input en expertise .Have a look at your fan fixing, Mark. Is it the same as this or does it have a metal clip holding it?
View attachment 21047
What l've found is that with the rotation as marked here, in favour of the blades, it's all but useless. But reverse the polarity & spin the fan against the blade profile you get a pretty healthy airflow, which is what Demetris predicted.
Whether it's better than the P6 original l don't know, l suspect it's at least equal but may be able to compare the output against my other unit on Saturday when l take the heater over to Richard.
If the fan could be reversed on the shaft bringing the profile of the blades then l think the output would be blinding but looking at mine it doesn't look likely. Alexandra who reconditions the heaters has a video on Youtube servicing a heater motor like this, with the same fan held on by a metal clip which with difficulty, she removes successfully. Mine doesn't have a clip as you can see & the Metro box had never been apart as far as l could tell so possibly this was heat shrunk onto the shaft or somesuch. So l'm just wondering what your fan fixing looks like & if you would consider removal if you were doing the job.
Alex's video:
Ok, l've just noticed her fan is the one needed for the P6.
I'll message her again.
Anyway, wiring spliced with the P6 colours, resistor swapped for the Metro & the extended cover attached with some foam to accommodate the slightly distorted base plate:
View attachment 21048
cobraboy
Well-Known Member
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
They are indeed, l mis-saw that earlier. Well am l wrong in thinking that the cupped side of the blade is the driving side for the airflow? It seems not as the arrow on the Metro fan indicates otherwise & the original metal fan has it's cupped sides facing the other way to boot. My fan is running backwards (l just checked again ) in the correct P6 anti-clockwise direction looking from the rear of the case & that being the case then Alexandra's fan must be the wrong one for a P6 too even if she took it out of a P6 heater. They do work backwards, just not as well. Who knows what happens to a car over the space of fifty plus years.
) in the correct P6 anti-clockwise direction looking from the rear of the case & that being the case then Alexandra's fan must be the wrong one for a P6 too even if she took it out of a P6 heater. They do work backwards, just not as well. Who knows what happens to a car over the space of fifty plus years.
Demetris
Well-Known Member
Alex said it's P6. The early cars had the metal fan l took out of this box but changed to the plastic ones later on, which isn't surprising.
Still smaller than the Metro one though.
What a barrel of worms, it's all Demetris' fault you know.
Guilty as charged!
IMHO, you have 2 options now.
- With the parts you already have at hand, combine the Metro motor with the Rover cage fan. Even if you will have to destroy the Metro cage fan to remove it. This option will give you the highest output with the available parts.
- Buy something like this 3 Speed Squirrel Cage Heater Fan that has already the correct orientation, 3 speeds (the Rover P6 switch can be modified to accomodate 3 speeds) and will be definately more powerfull and more quiet. I don't think that it will be too difficult to combine something like this with the P6 heater box.