My 72 3500S work in progress

[Dave3066]

Also not there are the ARP stud kits for the bottom end. They had to be ordered so will arrive later.

Hi Dave, fun and enjoyable times ahead assembling your motor indeed...

Just wondering if, as part of the block machining work, and the fact that arp main studs are being fitted, because of the higher torque tension on the studs they will have to be fitted and the caps torqued up to the new setting so the main tunnel can be aligned bored at this new torque setting. As if you just fit the studs and not do the machining then the main caps will distort and potentially damage the bearings and crankshaft. I had this work done on my block and the machine shop even had etched the new torque setting on the bottom of the block as a reminder for future users. You may read in the arp instructions that they also recommended this align boring of the main tunnel.
So wondering if you have considered this work on your block?

Regards,
Scott

Scott

Yes I am aware of the issue around crank tunnel alignment with ARP studs. When I spoke to the guys at RPi they said it wasn't a huge issue and very seldom creates problems. There is apparently a technique for torqueing down the caps in such a way that you minimise the risk of distortion. Those instructions will come from RPi with the studs. If I get to the stage where it looks likely to affect my engine I'll take the block back and get them to align bore the tunnel.

No point in having work done unless it's needed.

Dave

 

[Dave3066]

Quick question while it's still fresh in my mind. I've been reading a few V8 rebuild threads on other fora and wondered what's the consensus on how to fit piston rings? Proper tool (any recommendations?) or do it by hand?

Cheers

Dave

 

[harveyp6]

Quick question while it's still fresh in my mind. I've been reading a few V8 rebuild threads on other fora and wondered what's the consensus on how to fit piston rings? Proper tool (any recommendations?) or do it by hand?

I've always done them by hand, but the pliers are so cheap from the likes of Machine Mart that they're probably worth getting. The one tool I keep saying I'll get is a ring groove cleaner. Cleaning the grooves with bits of broken ring is always a PITA.

 

[suffolkpete]

The way I do it is to get a couple of feeler gauges , position them opposite to each other on the piston and slip the rings over them.

 

[Dave3066]

Thanks both H and Pete. Pliers are pretty cheap so I think I'll get some.

Not a lot done this weekend other than cleaning a few pistons.

Cleaning the grooves with bits of broken ring is always a PITA.

It does work quite well though. I removed all the old rings from the pistons and set about cleaning them. The tops were all caked in carbon so I'd soaked them in paraffin to soften the carbon. This is an example of one top:



...and this is after cleaning:



The rest of the pistons look much the same:



...and after a good scrub with scotchbrite and paraffin ...



Markings on the con-rods are different as well, 2 examples:



and:



other side:



and:



a couple of part numbers for anyone interested in these things





after a couple of hours I now have 4 clean pistons







So four more to do then I'll decide if they're going into the domestic parts washer to finish them off :wink:

Dave

 

[roverp5Bcoupe]

Nice work Dave!. When i rebuild my RV8 i used the brushes on the picture beneath for cleaning the oil ways in the block, crankshaft and heads. I got these from Frost i believe and these last well.
Are you planning to replace the cam shaft bearings?

Peter

 

[Dave3066]

Hi Peter

I read your thread on the P5 forum, very impressive work. I have a few "go to" threads that I'm using during this engine work. Yours is one, the other is Cyf's on the P5 forum as well as few elsewhere. I have a variety of brushes in my tool chest, but the block, crank and heads are all getting hot-tanked so that should clear out the oilways. I'll run a brush through them when I get the engine back to see how a good a job it's done.

I'm not planning on replacing the camshaft bearings as they look to be in good condition with no signs of wear. This was another question I asked RPi, "should I replace the camshaft bearings?". They were reluctant to give me any meaningful advice other than to say "we would always replace the camshaft bearings when we rebuild an engine". I think there are mixed opinions on the camshaft bearings with many of the opinion that they shouldn't need replacing in the lifetime of the engine. I appreciate Peter that someone like yourself who pays meticulous attention to detail would replace them as a matter of course. I prefer to exercise a degree of engineering judgement and replace "on condition" so to speak. Horses for courses I guess. I may revisit that decision when I get the block back and check them again, who knows

Dave

 

[roverp5Bcoupe]

Dave,

I spend a fair bit of time thinking if i yes or no should replace the cam shaft bearings and in the end decided to replace these. I guess the load these bearings face compared to the bearing sizes, is low so you could be right saying these ares designed for an engine life time. In the end, I decided to replace these as these are cheap and wasn't sure if these could cause a low oil pressure when not fully ok anymore and if the bearings are not oke it is an engine out job. When i rebuild my first RV8, i didn't have the special pulling tools and it took a lot of time to get these in straight and i scrapped one. With the pulling tools pictured beneath it is a very easy job which doesn't take more than 1 hour.

If you decide to replace the bearing, i can give the dimensions of the tools. These are made from aluminum and someone with a lath and access to the base material can make these very quickly.
Looking at the parts you bought, it is a very thorough rebuild and will give you lots of pleasure in the future. I have another P5B which is my daily driver and to this car, like you, i also fitted the crank lip seal conversion and am very happy with the way this is engineered/made and a now a perfectly dry engine. I also bought a Powerspark distributor with high tension coil and new leads for approx GBP 135,- and this i can highly recommend It is a completely new distributor with an original Range Rover amplifier. My car runs on LPG and starts very well even at low temperatures.
Good luck with the rebuild and have fun!
Peter

 

[harveyp6]

I spend a fair bit of time thinking if i yes or no should replace the cam shaft bearings and in the end decided to replace these. I guess the load these bearings face compared to the bearing sizes, is low so you could be right saying these ares designed for an engine life time.

Back in the day if the cam bearings failed as far as Rover were concerned, there was no replacement option.

If you decide to replace the bearing, i can give the dimensions of the tools.

I'm just having a set made, so if you could post the dimensions, I can at least check that they match what I have.

i also fitted the crank lip seal conversion and am very happy with the way this is engineered/made and a now a perfectly dry engine.

Is this a rear main lipseal conversion? If so I'd be interested in the details of that as well.

 

[roverp5Bcoupe]

Harvey,

I did a quick check and cannot find the drawing i gave to the machining man so i took the tools and measured these.

tool1: diameter 42,15mm, diameter of the shoulder 45,15
tool2: diameter 42,90mm, diameter of the shoulder 45,90
tool3: diameter 43,10mm, diameter of the shoulder 46,10
tool4: diameter 44,45mm, diameter of the shoulder 47,45
tool5: diameter 45,20mm, diameter of the shoulder 48,20

total length is 27mm, length of the shoulder is 5mm. a hole of 10mm was drilled in the center a i used a M10 threaded bar but M8 would have done the job.

I remember, i measured the 5 diameters of the bearing surfaces of the cam shaft and subtracted a dimension but i can't remember how much it was. A wild guess is 0,20mm and then i assume i gave it a negative tolerance range of 0/ -0,05. As you will understand the surface should be smooth. The dimensions of tool nr3 could be a little out of range compared to the others as the is the yellow one on the picture which i got made for a standard MGB engine but worked well for the middle cam shaft bearing of the RV8.

The lip seal conversion on the crankshaft was the front one in the cover. Actually it is not a real conversion as no machining work is required
For reference underneath a picture of the cover with on the LH, the new seal and on the RH the old rope seal

Peter

 

[Dave3066]

Got the rest of the engine back this week. Heads skimmed, new valve guides fitted and dipped



This with the old valve guides



...and new





Combustion chamber before



...and after



Polished and dipped crank







Crosshatching in the bores



block also dipped



some sort of strange distortion of that image :?



So just the bottom end studs to come (still) and we'll be off

Dave

 

[arthuy]

Looking good Dave.

The stripped down engine just reminded me of a guy I know with a P5 had a problem with an oil leak after he had cleaned out his engine oil galleries. The welch plugs which were supplied were just a a fraction too small, fitted but not good enough and oil leaked out.

Worth checking the plugs whilst you have the engine in bits.

Colin