My mean green hornet

I have just remembered another point of difference when using the P38 timing cover. The oil pickup system is entirely different to that as fitted to the P6B and to all other non crankshaft driven oil pickup systems.

There will be an issue with using the P6B windage tray with that oil pickup system. Can't be certain though as to whether the P6B sump will also have conflict with that system.

Ron.
 
Looking on Ebay, the P38 sumps appear to have the bowls further back than the P6/Range Rover sump bowls, the pictures I posted a few pages back were of a Range Rover 3.5/3.9 sump, partly modified to work around the oil pick-up pipe of the serpentine cover, and that had quite a bit of clearance beneath from my memory.

Worst case scenario that I can see from my observations and research would be either putting a couple of penny washers between the engine mounts and the rubbers, or re-profiling of a steel P38 sump in the vicinity of the oil pick-up tube. Trying to fit the P6 sump and windage tray to the serpentine cover in my opinion is more trouble than it's worth, they simply aren't compatible and would require significant fabrication to work to complete.

I don't see anything particularly complicated with this conversion, people have been squeezing Rover V8's into far smaller and more inappropriate cars for decades with much worse clearance issues. There are two ways of treating this conversion, either as a big capacity Rover P6 V8 as Ron has, or as an alternative big capacity V8 engine, which just happens to be very similar to the original fitment engine :)
 
Hey Jim, your gonna be busy by the looks of it, I love the shifter, awesome, had one on my 79 Z28 Camaro, love your steering wheel too, .
The RV8 is a great little engine but can be expensive to beef up, as Simon said "or as an alternative big capacity V8 engine, which just happens to be very similar to the original fitment engine :)" the ford 302ci small block is the same size and weight more or less but bigger as 5ltr and cheaper to hot up with go faster goodies 8) .
If I was to do another P6 project :wink: then I'd see if I could go this route but with the 5spd manual ford gearbox, would certainly hall ass! doner mustang could provide the rear axel with a locker diff and possible from suspension, better choice of aftermarket wheels too with ford stud pattern, you can tell I haven't thought about this at all 8) :wink: , look forward to the updates mate, cheers for now, Damian :D
 
DamianZ28 said:
The RV8 is a great little engine but can be expensive to beef up, as Simon said "or as an alternative big capacity V8 engine, which just happens to be very similar to the original fitment engine :)" the ford 302ci small block is the same size and weight more or less but bigger as 5ltr and cheaper to hot up with go faster goodies 8) .
If I was to do another P6 project :wink: then I'd see if I could go this route but with the 5spd manual ford gearbox, would certainly hall ass! doner mustang could provide the rear axel with a locker diff and possible from suspension, better choice of aftermarket wheels too with ford stud pattern, you can tell I haven't thought about this at all 8) :wink: , look forward to the updates mate, cheers for now, Damian :D
Click to expand...

My point was to treat the P38 Rover V8 as an alternative engine, rather than backwards engineer a modern-ish 90's engine to something from the 60's. When I was originally looking into retrofitting a Rover V8 into my P6 I came to the realisation that to get what I wanted, I'd end up having to spend vast amounts of money, ultimately for what is generally considered a delicate engine. I am now pursuing alternative avenues to 350-400bhp, are a substantially lower cost and greater reliability, and I have pretty much consigned the Rover V8 to the history books as a viable big power engine for me.

There are alternatives as you say, like the Ford and Buick V8's which are now known to fit with little modification to the shell and come with the necessary capacity to start with and proven upgrades. It's a decision one must take early on, invest in the Rover series of engines, or invest in alternatives. Investing in one then the other is quite simply pouring money down the drain.
 
sowen said:
Investing in one then the other is quite simply pouring money down the drain.
Click to expand...
And I don't plan on being one of those people :wink:
Afterall, this car will be powerful but not into crazy territory. There may be a couple more 'enhancements' if you like but I wont let it turn into a deep money pit! Most of all I want it to be enjoyable to drive.
The amount of time and money to keep the car tractable/strong enough with very high output would be extensive I think, plus the cost of obtaining one of those engines in the UK is a little off-putting. A friend of a friend has a modern mustang widowmaker 1100 bhp, which is essentially un-driveable in the wet..
I would like to do a duratec run on bio fuel though :D Remember the red impala? perhaps the only good thing pimp my ride did.. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4BrHzlOOQg
If I lived in the US, I imagine I would have quite possibly invested in a LS engine instead..
Thanks for the compliments on steering wheel/shifter etc Damian, I thought you'd appreciate those!

Ron I'm a bit confused on the sump too. It looks shallower at the front than the P6 one. If it doesn't fit I think I'd rather modify it/raise the engine slightly as Simon mentioned than try and mix and match too many parts that also need modifying.

Oh I think Chris meant that the tower being blocked causes air locks which lead to overheating

Jim
 
Ah yes, I remember the eco Impala, sounds very good and goes pretty well too!

The Powerstroke and Duramax diesels really are chucking out obscenely silly amounts of power now, very impressive for tractor engines :LOL:

I can't say how much money I've wasted by buying the 'wrong' parts, I now typically spend about 1/2 year or more obsessing over something and heavily researching it before splashing the cash, and have scored some pretty good bargains doing so, with plenty of scope to keep me amused for an extended period of time :D

The 4.6 looks like an ideal base for what you want, plenty of capacity for low end torque and driveability, and you should get some healthy figures out of it for those 'moments' when the opportunity arises 8)
 
Photo comparison of p38 sump and the range rover classic 3.5L sump pans, courtesy of Chris Cowdery's page again
sump2.jpg

Jim
 
corazon wrote,...
It (the sump) looks shallower at the front than the P6 one.
Click to expand...

Looks are deceiving Jim, for it is the front section of the P6B sump which is too shallow, requiring mods so as to allow sufficient clearance for fitment. The P38 sump is already deeper there.

Oh I think Chris meant that the tower being blocked causes air locks which lead to overheating
Click to expand...

Yes, that is what he meant. From where I am sitting, it makes no difference and will not lead to vapourisation or overheating. I can site an example to substantiate my view. A local P6B that I have seen where the air bleed hose from the tower was missing altogether. The adjoining pipe on the radiator had been removed and the hole blanked off. The outlet pipe on the tower remained and no coolant was escaping. Driving through Summer where temps regularly exceed 30 degrees C on a daily basis, vapouristion nor overheating were experienced, said the owner.

Ron.
 
The P38 sump will be deeper at the front to clear the oil pick-up tube that extends from the front timing cover to the centre of the engine. I began modifying a standard 3.5/3.9 Range Rover sump to fit, and didn't need to make the sump much deeper where the pick-up tube went, and from my previous test fit I suspect that Jim will have little trouble making it clear. The P38 sump will have some excess clearance inside which could be re-profiled to suit should it be necessary.

My personal opinion is that the rear bowl could be extended into a longer sump bowl like the P6 and older Range Rover sumps, and internally baffled to suit. The only questions I'd have is as to how suitable this suggestion is would be is the P38 sump steel, and if so, is it single or double skin. Double skin sumps are very difficult to weld, and I'm sure 3.5/3.9 Range Rover sumps are single skin?
 
Jag 3.54:1 diff arrived today so now I have all the main ingredients.
Just need to use the right flavours and put it all together, without making a meal of it :LOL:
Lots of fun for the new year!
Jim
 
I've begun work on making the rear bumper flush to the body and wings.
First step was to measure and trim down the irons. Which resulted in this, much more pleasing to my eye but still a way off where I want it to be..



Next step will be to trim the inner portion of the bumper to the lines of the wings, the main width of the bumper will be reduced by roughly 1.5".
Then the irons will need reducing again, and I'm planning on raising the whole bumper to neaten up the boot lip area.

I'm still getting on with preparing the 4.6, which will be running megasquirt/edis8 initially on the HIF6 manifold.
I need to finish cleaning up the jag diff and start work on mounting it, and also the zf box.

Inside the car, I'm thinking of making a centre console which would sweep the whole length of the interior creating a defined 4 seater.
This will better accommodate the B&M shifter enabling easier fitment and ergonomically will improve the driving experience.
Here's the height the shifter would sit , showing the console would be approx 3" higher than the standard tunnel. Something will need to be done about the handbrake, I quite like the idea of hiding it in the console with a sliding door for access..



Speaking of brakes, I'm looking into doing a hydroboost conversion. It's a Bosch system, originally designed by Bendix I believe. Parts are cheap from certain US cars, namely modern mustangs/ford 250/350 trucks etc. It's a small unit designed to work from the power steering pump rather than engine vacuum so no servo needed.
Without upgrading calipers or discs, braking efficiency can improve by upto 3 times!

Jim
 
corazon said:
Speaking of brakes, I'm looking into doing a hydroboost conversion. It's a Bosch system, originally designed by Bendix I believe. Parts are cheap from certain US cars, namely modern mustangs/ford 250/350 trucks etc. It's a small unit designed to work from the power steering pump rather than engine vacuum so no servo needed.
Click to expand...

I've been considering that. It would get around the need for a dual line remote servo, (or twin servos) to get a dual line system, and the supply into the PAS box could just be routed to the Hydroboost unit, with a link hose back up to the box. (Obviously not required with manual steering). They're a pretty compact unit as well, which I could see mounting in place of the m/cyl, with a tandem cylinder bolted to it. A lot of them seem to have adjustable pushrods as well.
 
harveyp6 said:
I've been considering that. It would get around the need for a dual line remote servo, (or twin servos) to get a dual line system, and the supply into the PAS box could just be routed to the Hydroboost unit, with a link hose back up to the box. (Obviously not required with manual steering). They're a pretty compact unit as well, which I could see mounting in place of the m/cyl, with a tandem cylinder bolted to it. A lot of them seem to have adjustable pushrods as well.
Click to expand...

That's exactly how I came across the idea initially, working toward a dual circuit system.
You can mount them at any angle I think, I just need to make sure there is enough room between the exhaust header and the engine bay wall.
The mustang one is my preference currently and it's the smallest, hopefully small enough. Awaiting reply from a seller about dimensions.
Whichever donor car it comes from, I'll be making sure I also obtain the pedal to make things easier!

Jim
 
Love the rear bumper treatmet Jim :D
I've been meaning to do that to mine for ages but have not quite got to it on my 'mods' list, looks great though & really changed the look of the rear end, do you have any side pics ?
Did you have to re-drill the mounting holes after trimming the irons down? Dribbling over that B & M shifter, look forward to your feedback one all is in place with the big motor, jag IRS & upgrade to the zf box.
cheers Damian
 
corazon said:
Inside the car, I'm thinking of making a centre console which would sweep the whole length of the interior creating a defined 4 seater.
This will better accommodate the B&M shifter enabling easier fitment and ergonomically will improve the driving experience.
Here's the height the shifter would sit , showing the console would be approx 3" higher than the standard tunnel. Something will need to be done about the handbrake, I quite like the idea of hiding it in the console with a sliding door for access..
Click to expand...

Love the rear bumper treatment. I've had fleeting thoughts of doing the same thing when I eventually get round the cosmetic side to my car. But then I do quite like the additional squish area that the proud bumper offers in the event of a rear end shunt...

Regarding the interior, I too have loose plans to turn it into a true defined four seater with rear centre console. I've sketched out my ideas and collected a few parts, but it won't be on the cards for a while yet. My primary motivation was wanting to get some ventilation to the rear passengers, so I plan to delete the rear ashtray and replace it with a small upright facia containing either a P5B rear heater switch (with vents under the seats), or some old Ford style vents for face level venting. I've discovered a way to successfully route ducting from the bottom of the heater box through the sills without having to cut anything critical. I'd then fabricate a similar looking centre console out of a thin sheet steel box backed in millboard. This would sit between the seats in place of the little squab to accommodate an ashtray with a short armrest permanently mounted behind it (very similar to the original XJ6 interior, below). The arm rest could then accommodate a small storage bin area.

Regarding your handbrake.... why stay with the original lever? Why not move it somewhere else with a new cable? You could go for a P5 style dash-mounted one, or put it outboard like a Mk2 Jag. Or maybe put a P5 style on in the trans tunnel so you just simply pull it up. Whatever you did, it would free up loads of room for a proper permanent armrest like this:

Michael

tumblr_m91l90vN0d1roi5yvo1_1280.jpg
 
Quick update
I've been working on the cowl induction arrangement.
The plan is to extend the carb elbows into a 10" circular air cleaner with a corresponding cut out in the bonnet, covered with subtle scoop.
The only alloy pipe I have in the right diameter currently for mocking up is a 45 degree, but will use two 90 degree bends behind the carbs meeting in the middle and up into the air cleaner.



Jim
 
Continuing with my cowl induction measuring, I've been roughly marking the underside of the bonnet with a 12" circle to recess the 10" air cleaner.
I think I've been lucky and wont need to cut into any of the bracing, however I can't finalise the placement just yet as I haven't made the air cleaner brackets..
I found some factory production line chalk under the insulation, "Stage 4" along with a signature "Jh" it looks like



Jim
 
Update and change of plans.
I've had the chance to buy a edelbrock 500 carb and performer manifold which I just couldn't pass up.
I weighed up my options and costs and it came out top, being simpler and more effective with the cowl induction setup.
Good thing I didn't already cut the bonnet!
More on this when I get the carb etc, should be tomorrow.

Something I've been meaning to experiment with for a long time is de-framing the windows.
Reasoning that I had little to lose and lots to gain, I started on it this week. The stainless frame was cut, bent back on itself and a notch cut out for the window to continue rolling all the way up. First impressions are good, all I'll need to do is use slightly thicker seals on the frameless area.
The smoother, sleeker look will be completed by shaving the gutters/drip rails, removal of stainless finishers and weld/smooth the roof transitions.








Jim
 
Hi Jim.
Good choice on the carb setup I think.
Be very interested to see how the frameless doors and smoothed gutters work out...I think your brave taking that one on, as I think there's more work involved than meets the eye.
Good luck :)
 
I like your style, just cut the frame off! I think frameless windows and de guttered could be asking for trouble as water from the roof won't get channeled away and could pour in. It's easy to take the gutters off after you've perfected the window seals.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top