New member looking to make his first purchase...

P

pressedsteel

New Member
Hello everyone,

I'm completely new here and new to the world of the P6 too! I've never owned a classic before, although I've had some great fun with my Stepdad's 1963 1071cc Austin Cooper S!

I've also always been a big fan of Rovers, although admittedly it tends to be those from my era of life... R8, XX etc. I'm currently driving a 45 and I must say, what a dissapointment! As reliable and capable as this Ronda may be, it's really not what I would see as worthy of a long ship badge!

I recently visited a small motor museum in Calne Wiltshire... The Atwell-Wilson motor museum is a brilliant little place by the way!... and I got to see some brilliant british cars, including a mint condition SD1. Well I was sold. I was going to get myself a "proper" Rover!

Well that as it may be, after some further research I must admit the SD1 doesn't seem like such a good proposition after all, as their poor reliability is only going to be crippling at the level of budget I have! Luckily in my travels around the Internet, I discovered the P6. I was amazed. A young whippersnapper like me (21) had never even seen a P6 on the roads! Where has this gorgeous brilliant design been all my life?

And that's where we find ourselves now. I want a P6 and I'm going to get a P6. But perhaps you chaps could help me along the way?

I really have no idea what would be the best model for me. I've always had manual cars, but a lazy V8 automatic sounds beautiful for the reasonably high motor way miles I shall be doing!

I have a budget of around £2500 (can be slightly stretched if needs be)... I'd rather get a good quality lEssex model than a rotted awful top notch 3500s, as although I have a reasonable knowledge of basic car maintenance, I'm not looking for a big project anytime soon. I just need something which will be a good, enjoyable everyday motor for me.

So what do you reckon? Am I askING the impossible or do you guys think you can point me in the right direction? I've also been thinking about LPG conversions due to again reasonably high mileages, but I've also read about EFI and electronic ignition being good ideas. Should I worry myself about any of this?

And what sort of insurance could a young driver like me expect to pay on a car like this? It'd be my only car and I only have 1yr NCD, but I will be able to keep it garaged.

Thanks in advance guys,

Hope you can make more sense of all this than I can!
 
You need to visit Colin Gould at Kingsdown Classics in Faringdon.
P6 specialist and will have a few cars for you to look at.
And maybe know of some for sale.
Unit 21
Pioneer Road
Faringdon
Oxfordshire
SN7 7BU
01367 244646
 
Thanks for that mate. Will have to check that out... I go past Faringdon twice a week for work and never knew this place existed!

So it's not a pipe dream after all? ;)
 
Not sure if that stretches far these days but should find something which is useable but may require tlc.

I would advise getting and keeping the car standard. A properly sorted P6 will be reliable as most cars are even the SD1 look after them and they are fine.

Any mod you do will put insurance up. EFi is there a benefit over carbs yes but to what extent. LPG could be good but the car and carbs need to be in fine fettle to optimise it.

There is a good a selection of 4 cylinder cars which would surprise you with their performance which is overshadowed by the v8 versions but they are more than adequet.

Plenty of advice and help available on the forum. Dont buy a p6 without running it by us. Most of the cars which become available for sale will be known and owners may have posted so worth reserching.

Colin
 
If you are keen on a P6 just from the looks then you will be well pleased by one after you drive a properly sorted one, the driving experience can be almost sublime even by modern standards.

Welcome

Graeme
 
Ok guys. Cheers for the info.

So a standard 4 pot would be the way to go as a young person...

Am I right in saying the manual is the better option with these cars? I'm looking for relaxed driving rather than sporty gear changes but I've heard that the autos can sap a lot of power from the 2000?

Ben
 
pressedsteel said:
Am I right in saying the manual is the better option with these cars? I'm looking for relaxed driving rather than sporty gear changes but I've heard that the autos can sap a lot of power from the 2000?
Click to expand...


The auto is no fireball, but its real Achilles Heel is the flexplate, so I'd have a manual.
 
I wouldnt say sap. From memory the 2000/2200 have 105/115Bhp. I worked on a friends 2200sc auto and it was surprisingly quick and a nice driveable car.

If frazer comes on he will be able to give you his points.

Overall buy the best car you can get. If the auto box needs work, body needs welded or paint the bills can clock up.

Colin
 
Oh really? You know I've just had to look up what a flex plate is... maybe I'm better sticking to what I know with the manual ;)

Obviously I'm assuming a twin - carb motor is going to be a fair bit more costly on insurance, but what about the difference between the 2000 and 2200? From the stats it doesn't seem to make too much difference... Or is there a difference to be felt when driving?

Ben
 
The car's are so old now, l'd be surprised if the insurance companies make a distinction between single & twin carbs & you don't have to tell them what TC stands for unless they specifically ask that question.
Do some research on the comparison sites first. You could borrow a couple of appropriate registrations from pictures on the net for this task. No harm in it & you just tick the 'haven't bought the car yet' box. This should give you a rough idea of costs between the two.

Apart from insurance the TC's can be a bit of a pain to keep in tune depending on the type of SU's fitted though don't let that put you off if you'd like a tad more oomph. The 2200TC does offer the best performance overall out of the four-pots but an earlier 2000 can feel a more solid car, especially a series 1.
 
Well, I bought my first car, a 1967 2000 automatic, a few years ago now, when I was 18, and I'm now 23.

My main advice is to buy the best you can afford. I bought an okay car, but I could have had an excellent one, for not a lot more. Don't get hung up on performance, either. Every single P6 performs more than adequately, to my mind, including the 2000 auto.

I used mine everyday, for over a year, as an only car, and subsequently bought a 75 V6, as I felt a bit guilty running my 2000 through the salt. However, unfortunately, having not owned an old car before, nor indeed, any car, I didn't do much of my own maintenance, spent an absolute fortune, and consistently had an unreliable car.

To run an old car, enjoy it, and use it with true enthusiasm, try to tackle as many jobs as you possibly can yourself. Hence, here I am, servicing everything I own, and restoring my P6. I'm not talented in any way, but everything is straightforward enough when you're as financially desperate as I am! :shock: :LOL:

Buying a 2000 is getting dearer than I'd like, too. My advice is read as much as you possibly can, and if you want to know anything, ASK! I've made plenty of expensive mistakes, but I'm keen to help anyone avoid making similar ones. Be very meticulous with any car you view, if it's with the aim to keep it. Don't go hunting a specific model, trim or colour. Instead, decide which one you like best, of the separate examples.

Modification-wise, leave it as is, until your insurance gets cheaper.I found it was a nightmare to insure the 2000 at some points. Most classic insurers won't insure anything modified at all for young people.
 
Hmm, far be it from me to sound a cautionary note, but if it's high motorway mileage then as excellent as a P6 is, then perhaps a 50 year old design isn't what you are looking for. The main issues being that standard gearing is low, having no "fifth" or equivalent automatic overdrive/lock-up and it isn't very aerodynamic meaning there's a fair bit of wind noise cruising at speed. Not that it can't do it, the P6 was realistically the first British family car to be able to sustain high speed cruising up around 100MPH, its just that things and expectations have moved on and you need to ask yourself whether you'd really want to, especially as your only car. As dull as a Rover 45 perhaps is, as a tool for cruising up and down the motorways, it'll win, well, more massacre a P6 no contest. Most importantly it'll be far more stable and safe.

I had a V8 when I was 17. I don't remember it being much to insure. Sad but true but in 2015, it ain't any faster than a VW Golf diesel, it just sounds far, far better. I loved it so much, 25 year later I have another.

If you are coming from modern cars then try one first, you might find the unassisted steering to be an issue for parking and u-turns. No 4 cylinder had this from the factory but some have been retrofitted, optional on V8s, at least the series 2. You might also find the 3-speed "clonk-o-matic" somewhat amusingly crude.

You'll struggle to get in the upper 20s MPG from the 4 cyl and low 20s from the V8, so relatively speaking not night and day. In fact a hard driven TC will be down to V8 numbers. The only way you'll improve in any useful way this is fit a 5 speed manual.

Plenty of people use a P6 every day, I'm guessing this is mostly urban and A/B road commuting, but what do I know? It's not a choice I'd make because you can't use it all weathers and forget it like a modern car because it'll deteriorate fairly quickly, I cannot commit to the level of care needed to make this a sustainable option. As a kid secondhand P6s were common and were merely "transport" and boy did most of them, even relatively new ones look dog-eared. Older cars are not necessarily unreliable, they just demand a lot more care and effort. For example I drove 6000 miles in 4 weeks on my last European holiday, that's 3 P6 oil changes.
 
Yes, that's all true & you will definitely be no stranger to the garage forecourt though you seem to have an idea of that & LPG conversions have been done. They do indeed feel undergeared on the motorway too, as Peter says.
However, it can be done but it may take you some time to fettle your chosen car into a condition to resume everyday duties in the 21st century.
It's all good, character-building stuff though so make your own choice.
 
Good advice guys. I'll definitely have to try and find some place willing to let a young person have a test drive!

And then it sounds like a weekender car is the way to go first of all. As I do bits to the car and potential give myself some comforts / money saving changes perhaps then I can use it every day, especially when I'm no longer do so much motorway work.

Another question that's just popped into my head is security... I'd like to think most people would care for and respect a classic (I know I would) and as such do little more than take pictures... but I'm also acutely aware that a car of this age would probably be dead easy to steal! Is this something you guys have found needs worrying about, and if so what security do you add to the car?

Ben
 
My S1 has no steering lock and you can turn the key with a screwdriver.

One of the simplest and best mods is to fit a battery isolation switch. Not only for security but when working its a good safety feature and if not using the car for a period it'll protect the battery.

That and some form of mechanical imobilizer, like one of those gearshift locks really are the minimum you should have.

Unfortunately old motors for banger racing (even though the P6 is not suitable for this as crump zones tend to actually crumple) or simply parts and scrap value are at risk.
 
Oh dear! Yes I do vaguely remember the gearstick locks from my Childhood... just about! Most of my life cars have been so well immobilised you need to take keys to steal anything!

Would an alarm be a good idea or would that be a bit of a garish modification for a classic?

Battery isolator is a good idea but then the clock wouldn't run... and that would upset me ;)

Also audio equipment. Maybe I'm being stupid but while the cars all seem to have radios I can't seem to see where the speaker is? I'm not into banging music though and Radio4 LW would do me fine! Especially as it looks like I won't have a v8 burble to listen to...
 
The bottom line is a determined thief WILL steal your car if that's what they want. Who pays an attention to an alarm? Also with a simple ignition system, no immobilizer is ever going to be particularly effective, it's only in modern cars where the ignition is a complex black box is this the real deal.

The name of the game is probably stealth. If only you know there is a small fuel tap just behind the D-pillar.....

In a way the old favourites are likely to be best, who carries a rotor arm for a 1972 Rover when out thieving on the off-chance?
 
Battery isolator is a good idea but then the clock wouldn't run... and that would upset me

Not to worry, the chances of a Keinzle electro-nechanical clock being correct is fairly minimal in my experience. More seriously, battery isolators work to ground and you have the option of wiring an low current fuse which will keep the clock running and blow instantly should anyone try to start it.
 
I would say that whatever model you go for check the integrity of the base unit as much as possible before you purchase - I have just recovered from the trauma that was rebuilding most of the length of the passenger side sill, rear jacking point, wheelarch and d-post, similar on the drivers side (although not nearly so bad) and removing and replacing some seriously bad repairs for the rear suspension top link mounting points that had been done previously.

If possible, see if you can check the following areas... keep your eyes peeled for filler and fibreglass. My car was full of the stuff with cunningly placed steel plates so that an MOT tester using a magnet would think everything structurally sound:

Inside -

Under the rear seat bases (they pull out) in the little well-like areas just inside the door and around the door shut,
In the boot, check the floor and also the sides of the boot walls where the rear top links bolt in
Inside the cabin, check the bottom of the sills where they meet the floor as much as you can (may mean peeking under carpet).

Outside -

Ask if seller can show you what it looks like with sill covers removed (I wish I had), the bottom face of the sills can go, and they can get crusty around the jacking points
Front splash panel - directly behind the front wheel at the bottom can get a bit holey
Rear wheelarch - directly in front of the wheel, where it meets the sill and floor at the bottom (this may be impossible to check unless the car is up in the air or has wheels missing).

This is all fixable, just it takes time and effort so best avoided in the first place if possible :D

If you are still reading and haven't run away then should say that I would echo the other comments that the P6 is an incredibly nice car to drive, and wonderfully unique. I love mine.
 
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